Metallic taste since adding manifold

[yesjenks]

Since adding this manifold (https://www.morebeer.com/products/gas-manifold-4.html?site_id=5), the 2 kegs I have on tap have a metallic taste. The longer they're in the keg, the more prominent that taste is. When I received the manifold I soaked in star san for about an hour.

Any ideas?

 

[kristiismean]

I don't know how good star san is at breaking down oils since it's not a cleaner.

I would cycle pbw through it, 20 minutes HOT or longer. then rinse, then see if that helps at all.

 

[yesjenks]

Thanks so much for the info. I will try this tonight.

 

[yesjenks]

Soaked the manifold in PBW & hot water for about an hour. Ran water through it. Metallic taste is still there. Any other ideas?

 

[Lefou]

You may have to replace this if you feel it's an issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass

Did you see the website's notice for CA Prop 65 for this item? The government, in it's infinite wisdom, allows manufacture and sales of some brass fittings to contain up to 2% lead. In the Fabulous Pipple's Republic of NJ where I live, we've had the school district test positive for lead in the water.
Why? Brass plumbing.

I'm not saying your gas fixture is leaching lead, but anything "food grade" shouldn't taste bad or put your health at risk. When I wanted a SS ball valve and barb for my Igloo cooler, the local Lowes didn't carry them. I went elsewhere.
Matter of fact, I'm even using cheaper nylon rather than buying crappy brass.

 

[kristiismean]

Yeah, I was hoping it was just oils left from machining. I guess it's not. is it possible to return it and buy another one from a different source?

 

[RedlegEd]

Soaked the manifold in PBW & hot water for about an hour. Ran water through it. Metallic taste is still there. Any other ideas?

Hi. Two questions. 1. Did you previously have the kegs gassed up with a different manifold and not have the flavor? 2. If so, did the flavor appear after you installed the new manifold? When you soaked your manifold, did you also purge your kegs of all the CO2 and degas your beer? If not, and the flavor is associated with the CO2 in the beer, simply cleaning the manifold at this point is probably not going to help. An easy way to check, is to pour a glass of beer (~8 - 12 oz) and let it sit in the fridge open until flat. Give it a stir and see if it still has the metallic flavor. If not, you know it's in the CO2, if it does, then the flavor has transferred into your beer. Hope this helps. Ed

 

[yesjenks]

Thank you all for your responses/incite and the lesson regarding brass. Morebeer is sending me a replacement manifold. So far, I've had very positive experiences with them. Happy they're replacing it!

I know it is the manifold because the problem began when I added this manifold. In fact I have a slitter leading into a keg and that keg is fine.

 

[augiedoggy]

You may have to replace this if you feel it's an issue.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass

Did you see the website's notice for CA Prop 65 for this item? The government, in it's infinite wisdom, allows manufacture and sales of some brass fittings to contain up to 2% lead. In the Fabulous Pipple's Republic of NJ where I live, we've had the school district test positive for lead in the water.
Why? Brass plumbing.

I'm not saying your gas fixture is leaching lead, but anything "food grade" shouldn't taste bad or put your health at risk. When I wanted a SS ball valve and barb for my Igloo cooler, the local Lowes didn't carry them. I went elsewhere.
Matter of fact, I'm even using cheaper nylon rather than buying crappy brass.

How exactly does the lead transfer from the brass to the beer if its only a gas valve? Why mention this when it sounds like you know its doesn't pertain here? Its only spreading fear and misinformation IMO. if it were a liquid beer contact valve than yeah I could see it being worth mentioning even though the truth is the lead in your drinking water likely came from the solder used on the copper pipes if anything and as long as you dont cook or drink any water from the hot tap side (as recommended by most government agencies around the world for years) the lead exposure should be extremely low and acceptable with copper/brass plumbing. Especially after all these years to leech out. (newer solder is "lead free" and has extremely low levels)

Honestly I just dont see how the valve could be causing the issue once cleaned of oils, Especially since theres such small and short contact between the gas manifold and the co2 gas.
If this were the case you would be tasting all the metals around you exposed to the air you breathe as well right? also more people would be complaining of tasting the metals (including corrosion and rust in steel cos tanks as well as the brass/lead taste from the regular non lead free brass used on the tank valve/exit ports.) the reddinsh colored lead free brass in only generally used in potable water or food grade liquid applications.

I think the manifold had some machining oil in it and once that gets pushed and transferred to the keg of beer, that beer is going to have that taste regardless of how many times you clean the valve after the fact... Think about it..

 

[yesjenks]

I've a new keg on the gas after cleaning it. . .

 

[augiedoggy]

I've a new keg on the gas after cleaning it. . .

When you cleaned it did you be sure to open and close all of the valves while submerged in the cleaner liquid to get the cleaner into the pocket behind the ball inside the valve? there is deadspace there and thats where accumulation and left over oils and such would be hiding... taking the valve apart is the best way to get this clean.

Its not the brass your tasting...

 

[Lefou]

Scaremongering?
Hardly ... so lets talk a bit of chemistry and physics.

If there's a temperature difference between the released CO2 gas and the metallic brass valves, condensation can result, which means water is present. Dissolved CO2 under pressure in contact with the water may result in carbonic acid.

Is the Prop 65 warning just California "nonsense"? Maybe.
If it's not brass he's tasting, why does it taste like metal?
Lastly, why do people prefer stainless steel fixtures?

I'm done here, do as you will.

 

[augiedoggy]

Scaremongering?
Hardly ... so lets talk a bit of chemistry and physics.

If there's a temperature difference between the released CO2 gas and the metallic brass valves, condensation can result, which means water is present. Dissolved CO2 under pressure in contact with the water may result in carbonic acid.

Is the Prop 65 warning just California "nonsense"? Maybe.
If it's not brass he's tasting, why does it taste like metal?
Lastly, why do people prefer stainless steel fixtures?

I'm done here, do as you will.

First off why would there be a temp diffence since the gas , valve and everthing else should be in the kegerator or keezer. Last time I checked 90% of gas fittings are brass as well as a lot of water fittings including components for drinking water and icemaker lines.. Do you own stainless steel regulators or co2 tanks that dont use brass tops and valves on them?(The chrome plated regulators are made of non lead free brass as well) This whole discussion is silly really.. Many people use brass in their breweries including some nanobreweries and they use much more of it than a tiny gas valve used to direct co2 gas without off flavors, John Palmer (whos a metallurgist ) even explained the fear of lead from older brass fittings is extremely exaggerated in use on the liquid side as well.
To answer your question the main reasons people prefer stainless is because brass tarnishes and discolors (especially on the liquid side), Also using a dissimilar metal like brass on a stainless kettle will promote corrosion. and lastly people like there shiny brewing toys to match, more and more homebrewers base their purchases on looks, even over function... The homebrewery has become a mancave bragging rights piece in the same way a shiny chrome plated espresso machine might behind a bar in a ritzy restaurant or cafe..

There could be a lot of reasons the op could be tasting a metallic flavor including the most likely one being manufacturing residues left behind. that are now possibly lining the gas line between the valve and keg and keep getting pushed into the keg with the gas a little at a time... if it is machining oil of some kind this is very likely the case and unless the lines and quick disconnects were/are cleaned with an oil cutting detergent as well it will taste a long time to clear up.

btw natural and propanes gas lines and valves are often made of non lead free grade brass and copper and people eat the food cooked directly over the flame in some cases.. If lead or even off tastes were to somehow come out of the brass into the gas as you imply dont you think it would be a huge issue here ?

AGAIN the California prop 65 lead free brass law only pertains to brass being used for drinking and food grade liquid applications. the brass fittings sold in the section made for gas fittings are the same old yellow brass with more lead they have always been. The same goes for the valves on your co2 tanks and in your regulators and even the beer faucets most still use which are only chrome plated on the outside... Think about how silly this argument is.

You'll get more lead exposure using an electric drill with lead in the brush motor system (as many do according to the warning on the box) to run your grain mill than you could ever get from using a brass valve for co2 gas. Let alone a beer tap which were all brass up until bud changed that about 20 years or so ago... 90% of bars still use brass taps and they are NOT lead free brass.

 

[yesjenks]

When you cleaned it did you be sure to open and close all of the valves while submerged in the cleaner liquid to get the cleaner into the pocket behind the ball inside the valve? there is deadspace there and thats where accumulation and left over oils and such would be hiding... taking the valve apart is the best way to get this clean.

Its not the brass your tasting...

Yes, I opened and closed all valves while soaking it. However, I didn't run solution through with a pump. I'm thinking that was my error.

There is a lot of good info in this thread. Thank you to all that contributed.

I don't have the most sophisticated palate. In fact I'd prefer nachos, wings and mozzarella sticks to any other food. Period. That being said, I taste metal. Maybe the metal taste is oils.

Bottom line, I want it to be gone. I'm going to swap out the manifold when I have a few. Thanks again for your input!

 

[stevehaun]

Personally, I never have cleaned anything on the gas side of my dispensing system and I seriously doubt if pubs would either.

 

[Lefou]

Do you own stainless steel regulators or co2 tanks that dont use brass tops and valves on them?

No, I DON'T have a regulator or CO2 tank that has stainless fittings for gas lines. I doubt if that even exists in the homebrew market. I also don't utilize a keezer or kegerator with multiple kegs and lines using brass, nor do I intend to. One is keg enough for my needs and this is by choice.

Why?
Despite what pot-bellied Beer God Palmer might say about the chances of metal contamination being miniscule on the gas side of homebrew setups, it doesn't change the fact brass fittings contain lead and zinc and they can degrade in the presence of moisture and CO2. It's my intent and perspective to minimize chances of personal exposure to possible contaminants, however small. Other people may not see it that way, and that's fine with me.

If there's anything we can agree on, the small homebrew market really needs better, safer alternatives. You can see this with the multiple setups and variations every homebrewer uses. Better gear and better methods would make better beer and might reduce the public misperception of our hobby, too.
That, and time.

 

[augiedoggy]

I personally dont use brass or even copper in the hots or cold liquid side of my homebrewery and one of the reasons is the very small chance of possible health effects of using metals which are heavy toxic metals, but I dont believe this is a concern at all on the gas side myself and I'll leave it at that.

I learned that artificial turf actually has a lot of lead in it recently and as it wears it releases the lead in a dust... Guess im im glad I dont have kids who play sports on it since the lead is more dangerous to kids than adults.. Lets not forget People drank beer from leaded pewter mugs for what centuries? and they even made lead lined water lines...Too much Lead is bad for anyone but the reality is it actually takes quite a bit to cause health problems in adults from everything Ive read. The amount that could ever seep from the surface of a brass valve even if it was submerged in beer wont be enough to cause any effects. (the yeast consume much of the metals that would make it into the wort anyway)

OP good luck with the new valve , I hope it takes care of your off flavors..