Melomels and other additives: Which stage

[hellsreach]

I am BRAND new to brewing, but have a question.

As I understood it, when adding fruits and other additives to mead, you would normal add in the primary fermentation. I was at a meadery this last weekend, and the seemed to say that all of their additives are added to plain mead in the secondary fermentation.

What do you all do and what would the difference be?

 

[Baabaadoo]

I'm newer as well. I've heard brewing plain mead then essentially infusing it with more flavors in the secondary allows more control of the yeast's fermenting environment. Fruit can contribute nutrients, which is why I have added some dried fruit (raisins are very popular), but I don't expect a lot of flavor from them.

Another benefit is that you're not blowing off a lot of flavor from your additives during the fermentation. I've read that it can get pretty aggressive and it can cause some flavor to be lost (aromatics are the most mention that I have read).

People do both. I've chosen to do the majority of my additives after the primary.

 

[fossilcat]

I've asked this question myself on this forum and have read many opinions, pros/cons, on fruit in primary vs secondary. I add in primary and secondary in the same batch and in some batches I add in just secondary, but I never add fruit to just primary- I might add a different fruit in secondary, but never just fruit in primary. This is just my preference, it may not be yours.

It's difficult to describe a taste and/or, as is the case here, a taste/feel, but I'll do my best. When you add fruit in the primary the sugars in the fruit are fermented. Imagine what your fruit tastes like without sugar - a little sour, right? But the sour taste is not unpleasant if not overdone - wine has a sour taste doesn't it? And for the same reason. You can also balance it with other additives. However, this taste becomes the first taste you experience, and it carries through out the tasting experience through swallowing. Sure, you taste other things, but the sour is always there - it's the base. You can retain the aromatics if you ferment at low temps, I've never had a problem smelling strawberries when fermenting strawberries in primary.

So when you add fruit to just the secondary, your mead retains all, if not most of the sugar, and therefore, more of the taste you expect from your fruit of choice. There may be some fermentation in secondary because of changing volume and residual yeast that hasn't died off due to alcohol poisoning, but overall, not enough to significantly ferment the sugars out of the fruit. So you get a light fruity drink. You can balance with tanin additions (like oak or tea) or spices (like clove or vanilla) to give more depth or dimension if you'd like.

But by adding fruit in both the primary and secondary you develop a more complex drink. The base that has been established in the primary by fruit addition becomes less sour (imo) with fruit added in the secondary. And the fruitiness from the secondary addition becomes less fruity. Your drink has more depth, complexity, and is "heavier". You'll find yourself taking small sips, - the bottom of your glass tasting the best.

You can see that I prefer a "heavier" mead. I don't think mead should be drank like soda or beer, I think it should be enjoyed like whiskey or a cordial. Sipping mead at night around a fire with friends and family while camping is my preferred environment. I like melomels bold - I use a lot of fruit, I like high gravity (>15%) and usually back sweeten between 1.010 and 1.015. Traditionals, metheglins, and capsicumels I like dry.

 

[Drewed]

Think as fruit in the primary as primer paint, in the secondary as finish coat. Sure you can top coat with out primer, but it won't be as nice, and you really shouldn't ever leave a room in primer alone.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Adding fruit to primary will give you more of a "wine-like" flavor, adding to secondary will give you a flavor that is much closer to the fresh fruit flavor.
I usually add to both primary and secondary & sometimes to tertiary as well. I think doing so gives my melomels much more depth of flavor, with nuances that couldn't be achieved by adding to just one or the other.
Regards. GF.

 

[Baabaadoo]

I've got a cherry mel going where I put dried tart cherries in and it taste sour (as fossil mentioned). I was planning on putting sweet cherries in the secondary and I think it'll round out the flavor nicely!

 

[fossilcat]

I've got a cherry mel going where I put dried tart cherries in and it taste sour (as fossil mentioned). I was planning on putting sweet cherries in the secondary and I think it'll round out the flavor nicely!

Baabaadoo - I'm planning on doing a cherry this year when they're in season so I've done some research. The majority consensus is not to use sweet cherries, stick with tart. Also, keep the pits. Apparently, that adds to the cherry taste. Also, mahlab is a spice derived from cherry pits that you can use if you don't have the pits (like if you're using puree or dried). Check it out.

 

[Baabaadoo]

Good to know. Thanks. What's the taste difference between using sweet cherries and tart? I'll definitely use the pits then. I have frozen sweet cherries.

 

[fossilcat]

The complaint was cloyingly sweet with the sweet cherries. Tart cherries, like Montmorency cherries, maintained a truer cherry taste. And while the tartness remained, the steep sour taste faded. But.... I can't endorse from personal experience, I haven't made a cherry mead yet with either type.

 

[jan_b19]

This question has been asked (and answered) on this forum already (you should really search the forum first before making another post about it)
that being said
the thread is here and the answer is by fatbloke in that thread

Ok, so you have to consider what flavour it is that you're actually aiming for.....

We often think of a fruit flavour for an ingredient, but the flavour as it is when the fruit is in its natural form. Strawberry being an excellent example, as is Raspberry.

Now if it's in primary, then the fruit sugars will be fermented out and you end up with a completely different flavour to the one of the original fruit. Plus you have to manage the fermentation properly or you can get "capping" issues like with "proper" grape wine making. With the strawberry example, you often get little or no red colouration of the brew, it actually goes a pale straw colour and while it might smell of the strawberry aroma, most of the familiar taste is gone (some of it may recover a bit after ageing), raspberry can still smell great, but with the fruit sugars gone, you can get a very sharp, acidic taste from the fruit. Yes, depending on the colour and ripeness of the fruit, some pigmentation transfer, but not usually anywhere as deep as the original fruit.......

So then the other side of the coin, being that of putting fruit into secondary. You have to think of what the definition of "secondary" actually is. Is it when you're most of the way through primary ? or when primary is done and you've racked the batch off the gross lees ? And the actually "secondary" stage is more about clearing the batch ?

In any case, if you put fruit into secondary, you will most likely not ferment out all the fruit sugars, so the resulting flavour is more "fruit cordial" in character, or at least more fruity in the original taste, as was more likely considered/intended.

There are other issues to consider, like possible oxidation (especially with fruit involved), though most of those are negated by good practice.

Personally, I either do the secondary or I do both. If both, then I use 1/3rd of the fruit in primary, as that will help with pH buffering and nutrition, even though I have to make sure that the fruit stays moist as there's still the possibility of spoilage, yet the fruit in primary does seem to help with the final character of the brew, then once the ferment is complete, I carefully add the rest of the fruit. I use a gentle swirling of the fermenter to make sure that any floating fruit stays wet/moist and I always aim to let it drop before racking - I'm not always that patient, some fruit will show signs of good extraction of flavour/colour (strawbs and rasps tend to look paler/whiter etc). You usually get a much more fruit/cordial taste this way.

So as you can see, both techniques have pro's and con's, bring you back to what flavor it is that you're actually aiming for in the brew.......

So basically it boils down to personal preference.