Mead stopped at 1.020

[catfishhoward]

I have a blackberry mead I think was around 1.090 starting out (I recorded the process on my phone which dropped in the lake, a little too much wine and not enough fish that night). I’ve seen on line where people are always trying to restart the mead if it doesn’t reach 0.99 but is it okay to bottle the mead if it stops fermenting at 1.020? If so, is it as simple as adding ½ tsp potassium sorbate and 1 campden tablet per gallon before bottling?

I also have a really cloudy apple butter mead, can I add bentonite at stabilizing and wait 2 months before bottling?

 

[Kent88]

If you like the taste and look of your head you can absolutely just add stabilizers. I'm not sure off-hand what the dose is, but what you shared seems reasonable.

I think I've only heard of bentonite being added at the beginning, and I'm not sure if there is a good reason for that.

 

[catfishhoward]

I have also seen them put it in the beginning as well but have seen a couple video of putting bentonite in after and think it takes around 2 weeks for settling?

 

[homebrewer_99]

I've used bentonite on 3 year old mead that wouldn't clear. It's 4 years old now and clear.

 

[bernardsmith]

I have a blackberry mead I think was around 1.090 starting out (I recorded the process on my phone which dropped in the lake, a little too much wine and not enough fish that night). I’ve seen on line where people are always trying to restart the mead if it doesn’t reach 0.99 but is it okay to bottle the mead if it stops fermenting at 1.020? If so, is it as simple as adding ½ tsp potassium sorbate and 1 campden tablet per gallon before bottling?

I also have a really cloudy apple butter mead, can I add bentonite at stabilizing and wait 2 months before bottling?

You want to say the yeast quit and left so can you stabilize this mead and bottle it at 1.020. I would say that it depends on why the yeast stopped fermenting with 20 points of sugar still on the table - That is more than 8 oz of honey in every gallon still unfermented.
Your starting gravity you say was 1090 so we are talking about 70 points of fermentation or an ABV of about 9%. Even second hand bread yeast can tolerate that with no trouble... so what caused the stall? The trouble is that fermentation is like an express train. Fermentation does not suddenly quit out of the blue. Something is going on and that something may rectify itself and when /if it does no amount of K-sorbate and K-meta is going to halt that train speeding down the track. You CAN "stop" a fermentation when a) it has ended and b) there are virtually no more viable yeast cells around... but if that colony is large and if it is viable and if the fermentation has stopped because of some reason that might change then you will be bottling glass grenades.Me? I would try to see what the cause of the problem is... too much acidity? too cold? not enough nutrients? not enough O2 at pitching? poor viability of the colony? Some of the reasons may prevent the yeast from restarting but other reasons may simply need to wait for altered conditions...

 

[homebrewer_99]

You want to say the yeast quit and left so can you stabilize this mead and bottle it at 1.020. I would say that it depends on why the yeast stopped fermenting with 20 points of sugar still on the table - That is more than 8 oz of honey in every gallon still unfermented.
Your starting gravity you say was 1090 so we are talking about 70 points of fermentation or an ABV of about 9%. Even second hand bread yeast can tolerate that with no trouble... so what caused the stall? The trouble is that fermentation is like an express train. Fermentation does not suddenly quit out of the blue. Something is going on and that something may rectify itself and when /if it does no amount of K-sorbate and K-meta is going to halt that train speeding down the track. You CAN "stop" a fermentation when a) it has ended and b) there are virtually no more viable yeast cells around... but if that colony is large and if it is viable and if the fermentation has stopped because of some reason that might change then you will be bottling glass grenades.Me? I would try to see what the cause of the problem is... too much acidity? too cold? not enough nutrients? not enough O2 at pitching? poor viability of the colony? Some of the reasons may prevent the yeast from restarting but other reasons may simply need to wait for altered conditions...

A lot of people don't use yeast nutrients. I didn't for years. Now I do and the results are like day and night. ESPECIALLY when you degas for several times a day and for a couple of days.

The OP may want to sprinkle a 1/4 packet of dry Lalvin D47 in there to see what it can do to eat up more sugar first.

 

[bernardsmith]

I'm sorry, homebrewer99, but I don't agree. To add more yeast into a problem batch is a bit like a movie that has people climbing downstairs into a darkened cellar after one of their group has gone missing and they all hear blood curdling screams. If we don't know why the last batch of yeast stopped working sending another batch into the same dark cellar does not make very much sense to me. What does make better sense is to begin a new starter and when you know that this starter is very active then you add small amounts from the problem to the starter, doubling the volume of the starter with each addition and then waiting to see that the batch you added is now fermenting as it should.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I'm sorry, homebrewer99, but I don't agree. To add more yeast into a problem batch is a bit like a movie that has people climbing downstairs into a darkened cellar after one of their group has gone missing and they all hear blood curdling screams. If we don't know why the last batch of yeast stopped working sending another batch into the same dark cellar does not make very much sense to me. What does make better sense is to begin a new starter and when you know that this starter is very active then you add small amounts from the problem to the starter, doubling the volume of the starter with each addition and then waiting to see that the batch you added is now fermenting as it should.

Funny, but it sounds like we're going down the same street, just traveling in opposite directions to get to the center of the block.

He said his OG was 1.090. He didn't mention which yeast he used. I use ale yeast for ciders and mead because Idon't want them to dry out completely.

MOST ale yeasts attenuate (on average) at 75%. Simple math: 90 / 4 = 22.5. His present G: 1.020. If his yeast attenuated 75% then his mead is done.

 

[Maylar]

MOST ale yeasts attenuate (on average) at 75%. Simple math: 90 / 4 = 22.5. His present G: 1.020. If his yeast attenuated 75% then his mead is done.

Attenuation is meaningless with mead, because all the sugars in honey are fermentable. Most ale yeasts, and even bread yeast, will tolerate 12-14% alcohol, so having stopped at 9% is, as Bernard said, an indication that something went wrong.

 

[dmtaylor]

I have a blackberry mead I think was around 1.090 starting out (I recorded the process on my phone which dropped in the lake, a little too much wine and not enough fish that night). I’ve seen on line where people are always trying to restart the mead if it doesn’t reach 0.99 but is it okay to bottle the mead if it stops fermenting at 1.020? If so, is it as simple as adding ½ tsp potassium sorbate and 1 campden tablet per gallon before bottling?

How do you know it's done at 1.020? How long has it been at that point? What date did you make it at 1.090? What yeast did you use? What has been the temperature over all this time?

 

[dmtaylor]

MOST ale yeasts attenuate (on average) at 75%. Simple math: 90 / 4 = 22.5. His present G: 1.020. If his yeast attenuated 75% then his mead is done.

I couldn't disagree more. Most ale yeasts will attenuate MUCH farther than 75% in a mead... and very often >100%!

 

[catfishhoward]

Since I dropped my phone in the lake I can’t be for sure the yeast I used but think it was the yeast that came with the kit I bought, Red Star Premier Cuvee (blue pack). I did 2 different gallons, I cooked the honey down for 1 hour for both, added 1 jar of apple butter to one and to the other gallon I added 4 small jars of raspberry jam. I did add yeast nutrient and yeast energizer only 1 time before pitching the yeast. I mixed the primary up 2 times a day for 4 day. Once it went into the secondary it has been really slow. My heat has been off so my house has been cold lately, below 65 degrees. I turned the heat on yesterday and noticed it had started up again but really really slow. So I guess I need to keep it in the warmer room for more time? Anything else I can do to speed it up or just let it go on its own?

Put in primary on 9-15-18 at 1.09.

Added spiced apples to apple butter and sweet cherries to raspberry gallon on 9-25-18, 1.03

Secondary on 9-28-18 when dropped to 1.04

Racked on 10-20-18 and added campden tablet, 1.02

11-7-18 PH 4.0, SG 1.02

 

[dmtaylor]

Warm it up and let it sit another month, then see where she's at. I'm sure it will ferment down a bit farther. Just takes a long time. Patience.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Attenuation is meaningless with mead, because all the sugars in honey are fermentable. Most ale yeasts, and even bread yeast, will tolerate 12-14% alcohol, so having stopped at 9% is, as Bernard said, an indication that something went wrong.

I disagree. A low attenuating yeast will NOT convert all the sugar in mead.

True...all sugars are fermentable, except for non-fermentable sugars. But that's not the point here.

Read any yeast chart and it will state a range of attenuation. My comment simply stated that the mid range for most ale yeast is 75%. And with his being in excess of 75%...it just MIGHT be done.

EVERY yeast strain will quit working when there is too much sugar to convert. If they didn't every beer we brew would have an FG of 1.000.

FWIW, since we do not know what yeast he used, his fermentation temps, etc., we are just GUESSING the possibilities of what happened.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I couldn't disagree more. Most ale yeasts will attenuate MUCH farther than 75% in a mead... and very often >100%!

FWIW: My source is the information on the manufacturer's packet. So tell them they are wrong.

 

[dmtaylor]

There now, looks like we've all said our peace. Somehow we are all correct in our own minds, even though we can't all be correct. I'm cool with that. After all, just look at my sig...............

 

[homebrewer_99]

Me too! CHEERS!

 

[homebrewer_99]

There now, looks like we've all said our peace. Somehow we are all correct in our own minds, even though we can't all be correct. I'm cool with that. After all, just look at my sig...............

You can't be an "idiot"...you speeled it correeectly.

 

[Maylar]

FWIW: My source is the information on the manufacturer's packet. So tell them they are wrong.

I'm only replying again in the hope that you can learn something here. It's not a right/wrong thing, it's because you are a valuable contributor and I want you to understand mead better.

The attenuation figures published for beer & ale yeasts are for beer & ale. There are unfermentable sugars in those brews, and yeasts will stop before going dry. That's not the case with mead, wine, or cider. All the sugars in those are fermentable and even a low attenuating yeast will take them dry.

As examples, Nottingham in a 1.050 cider will finish below 1.000 every time. S-04, one of the favorite cider yeasts is listed as a low attenuating strain and if you can keep the temp in the low 60's it'll usually finish at 1.004, but at 68 degrees my last S-04 cider finished at 0.996.

Wine and mead yeasts don't specify attenuation - it's understood that unless you exceed the alcohol tolerance, they all finish dry.

Mead ain't beer.

Brew on.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I agree...mead ain't beer.

I'm looking at White Labs Yeast Chart. They list attenuation for mead and champagne yeast: Sake is 70-100%, the rest are 80-100%.

I was only pointing out that not all yeasts dry out their product every time...you even stated you had two different FGs at the same temp.

Yes, I have used Notty in cider and mead and can agree with your observations...both high and low.

Back at the beginning I posted that the OPs yeast MAY be done and stating attenuation at 75%. Without MORE information from the OP, like the recipe and their notes, we are all making guesses at what may have happened. We have all this collective experience, but without those key elements we're all still driving blind.

IMHO, every comment and opinion offered so far is neither a definite right or wrong. For now, we're all playing "What If's"...until we find out the recipe specs.


FYI: Back in the 70s my parents lived in West Haven. I have a granddaughter who lives in Hamden. I think her husband is still on this site too. I'm originally from NJ so I like thin crust pizza, but I wasn't a real fan of Pepe's in New Haven.

 

[dmtaylor]

I've had Pepe's. It's fine. But nothing beats Chicago-style FTW.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I've had Pepe's. It's fine. But nothing beats Chicago-style FTW.

I don't live too far from Chicago (OK, 150 miles), but I don't like Chicago-style or pan that much. LOL!