max watts for for 240v 50a?

[inda_bebe]

i just got a 240v 50a installed in my garage and plan to got electric. im thinking 20 gal. batches at most.

HLT = 1 pid and 1 5500w element
BK = 1 pwm switch and 1 4500w & 5500w elements

is this too much wattage or is it enough? if someone finds plans to help w/ this build, please help. thanks. ive had months of thinking and i only want to spend once.

 

[Brumateur]

240V * 50A = 12000 Watt. And it's a maximum. Recommended to have 10% cap . It means all your elements switched on together should not exeed 11000 Watt. So if you wanna have 3 elements you need some interlock mechanism to prevent having them all on at the same time.

 

[ebstauffer]

I believe NEC states 80% of breaker value for continuous (define as >= 3 hours on) use. But let's face it, much of what we electric brewers do wouldnt pass inspection. I dont generally worry about capacity cap as much as I do wire size. Regardless of run length I always use 6 guage for my 50 amp main runs and then size appropriately after breaker.

 

[MtnHiBrewin]

ebstauffer is correct, and Brumateur is right about having an interlock mechanism to prevent more than 2 elements from being on at once. Two 4500W elements in the boil kettle wouldn't put you over the 80% point on your breaker, as long as you only run the boil kettle or HLT alone. An interlock feature isn't necessary as long as you don't run both kettles at once(with 2 4500W elements), but it would be a nice safety feature. A 4500 and 5500 watt element together put you a little bit over the NEC recommended amount. The breaker probably wouldn't trip in the time it takes to boil your wort, but the breaker would be heating up and wouldn't last as long as normal.

 

[inda_bebe]

for interlocking, i could put a two way switch in between the pid and pwm. ill probably use 2- 4500w elements for the BK cause sometimes i do a 2hr boil.

 

[jeffmeh]

for interlocking, i could put a two way switch in between the pid and pwm. ill probably use 2- 4500w elements for the BK cause sometimes i do a 2hr boil.

If you will only have 2 elements with 50a, you could certainly go with 5500w elements.

 

[Bobby_M]

In theory, you can put a pair of 5500w elements in the HLT and in the BK. If element A and B are the HLT and C and D are BK, the interlock function could allow AB or CD (it's a bit more tricky to allow AD and there's not much practical utility). It's certainly cheaper to accomplish on the control side between PIDs and SSRs, but the malfunction fail safe would rely on the 50a breaker tripping if you mistakenly fire 3 or 4 elements.

 

[jeffmeh]

In theory, you can put a pair of 5500w elements in the HLT and in the BK. If element A and B are the HLT and C and D are BK, the interlock function could allow AB or CD (it's a bit more tricky to allow AD and there's not much practical utility). It's certainly cheaper to accomplish on the control side between PIDs and SSRs, but the malfunction fail safe would rely on the 50a breaker tripping if you mistakenly fire 3 or 4 elements.

Did you also mean to include BC (in which case I agree that AD is of little utility)?

 

[jeffmeh]

And just to be clear, if you want to run 2 5500w elements in each vessel, but limit yourself to running either the 2 HLT elements, or the 2 BK elements, but not both simultaneously, then you do not need an interlock, you just need a 3 position switch and contactors (HLT-OFF-BK). If you want to be able to also run 1 element in each vessel simultaneously, then you should have an interlock like Bobby was describing.

 

[stevehaun]

I have 50 amp service for my brewery. I run two 4500 watt elements in both the BK and HLT. I brew 30 gallon batches. Do I wish I had more power? Yes, but not enough to change out my elements. During the boil I run my elements at 90% power for a good boil.
In the past, I used the same electric system to brew 15 gallons and it was awesome from a power standpoint. I could ramp mash temps with my HERMS almost at will. In a 30 gallon system I can easily maintain temps but ramping temps is very slow.
Of course, YMMV.

 

[rabeb25]

I have dual 5500 on a 50amp gfi. I have ran it literally for 5 years with never a trip.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[inda_bebe]

Nice. I'll do single 5500 HLT and a dual 5500 BK with a 3 position switch. PID for the HLT and PWM switch for the BK. With 2 pumps. I have a 3 wire 240v 50a spa panel mounted on the wall. Anyone can direct me to a Simple diagram or help me with one. I'm too much of a chicken Sh#t to mess with 240v. Looking out for my own safety so I'll have an electrician make me one.

 

[lschiavo]

Nice. I'll do single 5500 HLT and a dual 5500 BK with a 3 position switch. PID for the HLT and PWM switch for the BK. With 2 pumps. I have a 3 wire 240v 50a spa panel mounted on the wall. Anyone can direct me to a Simple diagram or help me with one. I'm too much of a chicken Sh#t to mess with 240v. Looking out for my own safety so I'll have an electrician make me one.

That sounds backwards to me. I'd put the power in the HLT. The BK doesnt need to do much. You are feeding that with 150 to 170 wort right?

 

[inda_bebe]

That sounds backwards to me. I'd put the power in the HLT. The BK doesnt need to do much. You are feeding that with 150 to 170 wort right?

But I may be boiling 30 gal. of wort on some days. So if I'm heating up 15 gal. of strike water, it wouldn't need that much power should it? Or should I just use 2 elements in each?

 

[mswebb]

I'm currently designing an electric conversion for my 1Bbl brewhouse. An electrical contractor will build my control boxes.

two 30A GFI breakers will feed outlets. Each outlet will feed a controller. Each controller will have an on/off switch and an A/B toggle. Brew kettle (A) and HLT (B) will each have two 5500W 240V elements being fed by each of the control circuits. I won't be using variable power controllers or temp sensors. With the toggles on each controller, there is no way that either controller can feed more than one element at a time. With this set-up, I can have power applied as 2BK, 2HLT, 1BK 1HLT, 1BK, 1HLT or all off

 

[lschiavo]

But I may be boiling 30 gal. of wort on some days. So if I'm heating up 15 gal. of strike water, it wouldn't need that much power should it? Or should I just use 2 elements in each?

It depends how long you want to wait. I am building a 1 bbl system. I will have dual elements in both the HLT and BK. I guess I would recomend both. I haven't brewed with it yet though. I sure like fast heating and recovery in my HLT though.

 

[mattd2]

But the HLT has time - you can start that ehating while crushing grain, etc. and it has 60 minutes to get sparge water up to temp during the mash. The BK time from sprage to boil is what is adding time to brew day.

 

[jeffmeh]

Or put two in both with and wire so you can fire two at a time at most. If you want to do it, there is enough knowledge here to help you through it.

 

[lschiavo]

But the HLT has time - you can start that ehating while crushing grain, etc. and it has 60 minutes to get sparge water up to temp during the mash. The BK time from sprage to boil is what is adding time to brew day.

Coming at ya with a HERMS background with the HLT as the source. Quick recovery and ramps have been my goal. If all I was doing was heating strike/sparge water with the HLT, I would agree.

 

[mattd2]

Coming at ya with a HERMS background with the HLT as the source. Quick recovery and ramps have been my goal. If all I was doing was heating strike/sparge water with the HLT, I would agree.

Makes more sense to increase the pwoer in the HLT for a HERMS I agree... and it is always a slippery slop down the path of RIMS/HERMS/Bigger/Better

 

[lschiavo]

Makes more sense to increase the pwoer in the HLT for a HERMS I agree... and it is always a slippery slop down the path of RIMS/HERMS/Bigger/Better

Apples to apples right. I think you pointed it out that not everyone here was on the same page. Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

In the grand scheme of the overall system cost, if you have 50amps to spare there's no reason not to double up elements in both the HLT and BK. Even in a 10 gallon system, if you've got the power, why not use it to shave time?

 

[lschiavo]

In the grand scheme of the overall system cost, if you have 50amps to spare there's no reason not to double up elements in both the HLT and BK. Even in a 10 gallon system, if you've got the power, why not use it to shave time?

Yes. My ultimate plan will leave my wife and kids in the dark ages. But only for about 20 minutes or so. As long as thier devices are charged, they won't even notice.

 

[mattd2]

Yes. My ultimate plan will leave my wife and kids in the dark ages. But only for about 20 minutes or so. As long as thier devices are charged, they won't even notice.

Just blame it on your city's poor town planning

 

[inda_bebe]

What kind of switches should I use for a dual 5500w? Is 30a enough?

 

[jeffmeh]

What kind of switches should I use for a dual 5500w? Is 30a enough?

Yes, assuming you use one switch per element (5500w draws 23a), and that you have circuit breakers 25a or 30a breakers in your control panel that step down from the 50a power feed before you run the lines to the switches.

 

[inda_bebe]

What about dual element per vessel? Should I put a switch before each element or can I use 1 switch per 2 at what amp switch?

 

[Brumateur]

Yes you can use one switch for two element but has to be 50Amp rated. Sometimes it cheaper to buy two 25amp or 30amp switches /contactors than one 50Amp