Matilda/Orval Clone

[sundog14]

Hello HBT,
I recently had a Goose Island Matilda and remembered how much I like this beer. So, I thought that it may be a good time to try to clone it. I did the usual interweb search and visited the GI website at which I submitted a request for any more info on the recipe beyond what is on their website....no response. Their website lists 2-row ,candy sugar and caramel as malts and Golding Celeia, Pilgrim, Saaz and Styrian as hops. ABV is 7.0% and IBU is 26. Color is"Golden Sunrise". Brewed with Brettanomyces.
After some research it seems that this beer may be similar to Orval. I have purchased a bottle of Orval but have not tried it yet.
My focus for this beer is on the yeast as key to flavor, aroma, etc. Other ingredients seem pretty straightforward. My yeast search has pointed to a Belgian yeast for primary and Brett (Bruxellensis) for secondary. However, Omega offers a yeast which may combine yeasts for primary only. They describe as follows:

Brett Blend #2: Bit O’ Funk contains the two Saccharomyces strains from Brett Blend #1 (OYL-210) for primary fermentation and is spiked with Brettanomyces bruxellensis for development of classic, funkforward Brett character during secondary fermentation. The bit ‘o funkiness will take extended time to develop (3 months or more)

This strain tests positive for the STA1 gene, an indicator of Saccharomyces cerevisiae var. diastaticus, and is capable of fermenting dextrins, resulting in very high attenuation.

I would also consider trying to harvest yeast from bottles of Matilda and/or Orval.
Any thoughts on this approach?
Cheers, Tom

 

[TandemTails]

I made an Orval clone last year that turned out great. Used WLP565 yeast in primary and then added the dregs from two bottles of Orval in secondary. Let it sit in secondary for a couple months and it tastes amazing. I have three bottles of the beer left and am savoring them lol.

The grain bill was mostly pilsner malt plus a little rye and acidulated that i had on hand.

 

[sundog14]

Hello TT,
Thank you for this tip. I've started saving dregs from Matilda, but what I got from one bottle does not look like much. Guess I'll need to drink a few more. I also have a bottle of Orval.
I did receive a response from Goose Island informing me that they would be unable to assist me with a recipe for Matilda.

 

[TandemTails]

I'm not sure how storing dregs affects viability but I drank the orval and immediately pitched the dregs into the secondary carboy. I used the dregs of two bottles and they were spaced out over a week or so.

You might want to look in the Lambic / Wild sub forum here and ask about how long you can store dregs. If you're going to wait a while, I'd make a little starter wort and add the dregs to that so at least there's something for them to chew on.

 

[sundog14]

Thanks again TT.
At this point I am planning on trying to make a starter with Matilda and Orval dregs and see which one, if either, looks to be the stronger. Of, course, this could change at any stage.
For primary fermentation, I am considering WLP 510 or 530, or Omega 204.

 

[eric19312]

Orval is a fantastic beer. I'm inspired and going to brew again soon. Want to try this recipe:
http://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Orval


Edited to add:
Make sure you bottle some of this in heavy bottles. It changes remarkably as it ages. At a hotel bar in belgium they had both young and aged Orval on the menu..Was 6 months vs 2 years, quite a treat to be able to taste side by side. Most of the time I see older bottles here in the US and many of these have been sitting on too warm shelf for too long. Still pretty good but not what I experienced in Belgium. I'd look for young bottles here and then cellar them at cool temperature to get the age impact right.

 

[sundog14]

Thank you Eric. Very helpful.

 

[sundog14]

UPDATE: Well, I tried to make a starter from dregs of one Orval...no luck. Tried same with dregs from six Matilda...same result. So I think that I will try WLP510 or 530 or Omega 204 for primary and WLP650 for secondary. Any thoughts?
Regards, Tom