Mashing out with a round cooler (tried BeerSmith..big mistake)

[MrBJones]

So I told BeerSmith that my mash profile was single infusion, medium body. It added a mashout step, said to add 1.69 gallons at 200º...was supposed to raise the mash's temperature to 168º. But it only raised it to 160º! Previous to the mashout everything was the way it should have been. Mentioned it to the guys at LHBS, they said that this happens a lot and they never trust BeerSmith for mashout. So, those who use a cooler for mash tun and do a mashout....how exactly do you do it, in terms of temp and volume? Is there a rule of thumb? A trustworthy calculator?

Thanks

 

[Rob2010SS]

So I told BeerSmith that my mash profile was single infusion, medium body. It added a mashout step, said to add 1.69 gallons at 200º...was supposed to raise the mash's temperature to 168º. But it only raised it to 160º! Previous to the mashout everything was the way it should have been. Mentioned it to the guys at LHBS, they said that this happens a lot and they never trust BeerSmith for mashout. So, those who use a cooler for mash tun and do a mashout....how exactly do you do it, in terms of temp and volume? Is there a rule of thumb? A trustworthy calculator?

Thanks

I've eliminated the mash out step in my brews. I've read that a lot of home brewers don't do it but i could be wrong. The way i was doing it before was i should heat the sparge water to boiling, add .5 gallons at a time and stir until it was 168. Whatever was left of the sparge water, i would add to my HLT and stir until it dropped below 170 while the mash out step was going.

 

[isomerization]

I will second not doing a mashout (I do BIAB). You might have lost more temp than you expected, did you take a reading before adding your last addition?

I like this calculator for step additions (basically what a mashout is anyway):

https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/

 

[shoengine]

I just denature my enzymes on the way to boiling these days...

 

[Oginme]

One of the things BeerSmith does not account for is the loss of temperature during the mashing process. Even a couple of degrees, given the mass of the water, grains, and mash tun, makes a big difference when adding only a minimal amount of water for the mash out.

The few times I have used my mash tun lately (prefer BIAB these days), I have skipped the mash out step and just drained directly into my brew kettle, turning the heat on as soon as I hit 1/3 target volume. This effectively denatures the enzymes fairly quickly at the end of the mash step.

 

[ccous]

If you batch sparge, don’t take forever to collect first runnings, then add all sparge water (boiled and acidified), stir, and collect second runnings. I’ve been hitting higher FGs this way. I know there a lot of systems that don’t require this, and there lots of no sparging going on, but this works for me.

 

[bobeer]

I have a 10 gallon igloo cooler with a false bottom that I use for all my brewing. I always mash out at whatever temp I can get the water to in time for the mash out. Sometimes it's only 160 and sometimes it's almost at 200 degrees.
I guess I don't do a typical traditional mash out... I do a single infusion mash for the full 60 minutes, then I pull all the first runnings, then use my auto siphon to pump the sparge water into the cooler. I guess it's more like a mashout/sparge I suppose but it works very well and I always get good beer in the end. The goal with a mashout/sparge is to rinse the grain of sugars and to stop the convergence of starches to sugars. Getting the water above 170 or so should ensure the mash to stop and will still be hot enough to rinse the sugars off the spent grain.

 

[kevin58]

A) you really don't need to mash out. B) you need to set up some custom profiles when using Beersmith. Go to the Brulosophy Youtube channel. They have equipment profile setup and mash profile setup videos that will help get you going.

 

[Shwagger]

I use a cooler and regardless of what BS tells me, I MO with nesr boiling water

 

[MrBJones]

I've eliminated the mash out step in my brews. I've read that a lot of home brewers don't do it but i could be wrong. The way i was doing it before was i should heat the sparge water to boiling, add .5 gallons at a time and stir until it was 168. Whatever was left of the sparge water, i would add to my HLT and stir until it dropped below 170 while the mash out step was going.

If you batch sparge, don’t take forever to collect first runnings, then add all sparge water (boiled and acidified), stir, and collect second runnings. I’ve been hitting higher FGs this way. I know there a lot of systems that don’t require this, and there lots of no sparging going on, but this works for me.

I use a cooler and regardless of what BS tells me, I MO with nesr boiling water

This all makes a lot of sense. The thing is, I fly sparge...taking from the sparge water to do a mash out wouldn't leave much water to do a fly sparge (unless you were OK with a very large pre-boil volume). Maybe I should instead batch sparge, with a mash out.

It almost seems like fly sparging might only be viable if you're able to mash out by putting direct heat on the mash tun.

By the way, is there mash out temperature above which problems can be caused?

 

[ccous]

By the way, is there mash out temperature above which problems can be caused?[/QUOTE]

As long as the sparge water is acidified, no. I use boiled sparge water with no problems. Others may have some qualms, but acidifying prevents the tannin issue.

 

[Shwagger]

This all makes a lot of sense. The thing is, I fly sparge...taking from the sparge water to do a mash out wouldn't leave much water to do a fly sparge (unless you were OK with a very large pre-boil volume). Maybe I should instead batch sparge, with a mash out.

It almost seems like fly sparging might only be viable if you're able to mash out by putting direct heat on the mash tun.

By the way, is there mash out temperature above which problems can be caused?

I fly sparge as well when making 5g batches. I reserve the MO water in a separate pot and use my stove to heat it to boiling. Then dump it into the cooler to perform the mashout. My sparge kettle has it's own water for sparring afterwards.

 

[Rob2010SS]

This all makes a lot of sense. The thing is, I fly sparge...taking from the sparge water to do a mash out wouldn't leave much water to do a fly sparge (unless you were OK with a very large pre-boil volume). Maybe I should instead batch sparge, with a mash out.

It almost seems like fly sparging might only be viable if you're able to mash out by putting direct heat on the mash tun.

By the way, is there mash out temperature above which problems can be caused?

I fly sparge as well. When you use that volume to mash out, you're subtracting from your sparge volume which, in my experience, has been fine. You just sparge with less. I've never had negative effects on gravity this way.

I remember reading above 170 you risk tannin extraction but i don't remember where i read that

 

[MrBJones]

Just to be sure...when you add the hot water for mash out, you stir it a bit...right?

 

[noiz2]

A lot of "rules" come from big brewing. If you are mashing out 200 barrels then the time is going to be a bigger deal and denaturing the enzymes is important. But in a five gallon batch you are heading to a boil way before a big brewer has gotten first runnings. I aim at 170 or so with the sparge water but I don't sweat it. The wort is going to be way over 170 very soon anyway.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I'll second Brewer's Friend mash temp calculator. It is usually DOB accurate. That said, I batch sparge, which accomplishes both sparging and mashout at the same time, so I can't speak to how it works with fly sparging.

 

[Shwagger]

Just to be sure...when you add the hot water for mash out, you stir it a bit...right?

When you add the water, it pretty much stirs it up for you. But ya, you can go ahead and stir since you haven't started your grain bed yet

 

[ba-brewer]

If you are shooting for a medium body beer I would say being a little or a lot off on the mashout temp is not a big deal. If you are looking for a full body high unfermentable sugar mash then it would be more important, but because you are starting at a higher temp you might have a easier time getting the temp up with a hot water infusion.

 

[kh54s10]

I have a 10 gallon igloo cooler with a false bottom that I use for all my brewing. I always mash out at whatever temp I can get the water to in time for the mash out. Sometimes it's only 160 and sometimes it's almost at 200 degrees.
I guess I don't do a typical traditional mash out... I do a single infusion mash for the full 60 minutes, then I pull all the first runnings, then use my auto siphon to pump the sparge water into the cooler. I guess it's more like a mashout/sparge I suppose but it works very well and I always get good beer in the end. The goal with a mashout/sparge is to rinse the grain of sugars and to stop the convergence of starches to sugars. Getting the water above 170 or so should ensure the mash to stop and will still be hot enough to rinse the sugars off the spent grain.

This is just a sparge unless you get the grain bed to at least 170 degrees.

If you do BIAB or Batch sparge there is no need for a mash out. That process is to stop enzymatic action when fly sparging for 45 minutes to an hour. The mash would still be changing the character of the mash while sparging. You want to lock in the character by stopping the action then continue with the long sparge time before boiling. With BIAB and batch sparging the time between the end of the mash and the start of the boil is short enough that you don't have to worry about further conversion taking place changing the character of the beer.