Mashing in a bag?

[Jayjay1976]

Just curious if it is possible to mash corn and malted barley in a bag. I already BIAB, but since my kettle has two elements built in I don't think I could mash without the bag.

Does this procedure make sense?
1. Mash in with cracked corn at/above gelatinization temp, hold for a time
2. Cool to ~148f and add the crushed pilsner malt
3. Mash for 90 minutes for conversion
4. Mash out 10 min @168f
5. Raise the bag and drain

After draining the wort to a fermenter do I add the corn mush too or discard it?

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Your process makes sense (sort of, more below). I've tried it. It doesn't really work (the mash part does, just not extracting the wort). The corn becomes a soggy mess that you can't get the moisture out of easily.

The only bit of your process that doesn't make sense is the mashout. Why would you want to stop the enzymes? 148F is enough to pasteurise (not that a bit of lacto contamination matters).

I tried lots of things with mashing corn - they were all messy and inefficient. The product tasted good though.

EDIT: the corn mush normally stays in. Again, I've tried both ways and neither was very successful. YMMV.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Your process makes sense (sort of, more below). I've tried it. It doesn't really work (the mash part does, just not extracting the wort). The corn becomes a soggy mess that you can't get the moisture out of easily.

The only bit of your process that doesn't make sense is the mashout. Why would you want to stop the enzymes? 148F is enough to pasteurise (not that a bit of lacto contamination matters).

I tried lots of things with mashing corn - they were all messy and inefficient. The product tasted good though.

EDIT: the corn mush normally stays in. Again, I've tried both ways and neither was very successful. YMMV.

Thanks for responding, I think I might try mashing the malted barley for 90 minutes, then lift the bag and add precooked cornmeal to the kettle, wait another 90 minutes until a starch test confirms full conversion, then let it cool in the kettle before draining to the fermenter.

I also might just stick with a 100% barley grain bill for a while and learn the ropes making scotch then crack this nut at a later date. I'm so freaking excited to get started!

 

[IslandLizard]

Maybe it depends on how large your corn % is.

I follow pretty much the same schedule, for brewing.

I've brewed with fairly large percentages of flaked corn (~40%). I first boil the flaked corn in strike water for 30', it becomes like a thin polenta. Then transfer the sticky semi-liquid to my cooler mash tun, add enough cold water to get it down to 156-160F before adding the rest of the (diastatic) grain for conversion at 148-154F for an hour.

Lautering that has never been a problem, having a manifold on the bottom and batch sparge 2x. Good efficiency ~85%. Wort is very clear.
Maybe you need a courser bag?

Since you're distilling it, you could ferment the whole mash without lautering.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Maybe it depends on how large your corn % is.

I follow pretty much the same schedule, for brewing.

I've brewed with fairly large percentages of flaked corn (~40%). I first boil the flaked corn in strike water for 30', it becomes like a thin polenta. Then transfer the sticky semi-liquid to my cooler mash tun, add enough cold water to get it down to 156-160F before adding the rest of the (diastatic) grain for conversion at 148-154F for an hour.

Lautering that has never been a problem, having a manifold on the bottom and batch sparge 2x. Good efficiency ~85%. Wort is very clear.
Maybe you need a courser bag?

Since you're distilling it, you could ferment the whole mash without lautering.

Great thanks, I was wondering about just fermenting the whole mash but was concerned that the barley hulls would produce more wood alcohol/methanol in the wash.

 

[IslandLizard]

Great thanks, I was wondering about just fermenting the whole mash but was concerned that the barley hulls would produce more wood alcohol/methanol in the wash.

Yeah, that may be an unwanted side effect. Find out how do the pros do it. Corn mashes are very common since corn is abundant and cheap.

How large are the cracked corn pieces? 20-30' boil is fine for flaked corn, but that's somewhat pre-gelatinized already. The larger the chunks the more time they need to fully gelatinize. Maybe you could do a cereal mash after the extended boil incorporating a 20-30' beta-glucan rest at 120-130F or so, before heating it up again to the saccharification temps. Just shooting some ideas to get that corn less sticky and more fluid.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I read somewhere that the pros distill the entire mash for corn whiskey (i.e. don't try separating the beer from the mush after the ferment, ferment the whole thing). This makes sense as it's very hard to separate. I'm not sure if it's true though.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I've brewed with fairly large percentages of flaked corn (~40%).

I guess the % would make a big difference though - I'm talking 75% corn.