Mashing for 90 minutes thoughts

[Sammy86]

Little background info...I've been brewing all grain now going on four years, I have my cooler mash tun and water needed dialed in and I use the same LHBS every time.

I never had a problem hitting my numbers until 3 brews ago. A Kölsch beer 90% pils 10% wheat. Missed my OG...1.042 supposed to be 1.048. Next brew Two Hearted Ale Clone OG was 1.048 supposed to be 1.056. Same Kölsch recipe again missed it by 1.042 supposed to be 1.048 so I googled it of course and found an OLD thread from either Biermuncher or EdWort can't remember and can't find it again about mashing for 90 minutes.

So I figured what the heck, those two are legends around here making delicious beer I'll give it try. Brew day yesterday for a Pilsner...mashed at 153 for 90 minutes...didn't take an preboil gravity but took OG and got 1.052 instead of 1.048 so success.

I just wanted some thoughts on the matter...I won't have to worry about crush very much longer as my fresh shiny new grain mill is coming in the mail but do people mash for 90 minutes or am I being a rebel?

Thanks all!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Your LHBS is probably crushing coarser than you'd crush if you did it yourself. Therefore, it takes longer for the starch to soak out of the grain, hence a better yield with a 90 min mash. I think most people who crush their own grains mash mostly for 60 mins. I notice about 1 to 2 extra points of gravity if I go for 90 mins rather than 60 mins. Mashing for longer certainly gives a more fermentable wort though (I guess it gives more time for the Beta Amylase to do it's thing).

 

[RaHarmakis]

In your case one likely suspect is a change in Grain. Its very likely that while your getting your grain at the same store, your getting malt produced across multiple batches batches. This means that each time your buy grain, its going to have different Extract Potential. If you don't know what the extract potential of the grains your using is, then hitting numbers spit out by beersmith or other software is more blind luck that anything, as the extract numbers that the software uses likely do not match the product your using.

So to me its possible that your LHBS just started tapping a base malt that has a lower extract potential than the stuff you used before.

Or as the poster above me says... their mill spacing could have drifted and your dealing with a more course crush.

 

[dmtaylor]

Buy a mill and never have this issue again. The LHBS opened the gap on their mill, plain & simple. And it could happen again. And again. And again. Not easy to predict efficiency when you don't own the mill.

 

[Sammy86]

Buy a mill and never have this issue again. The LHBS opened the gap on their mill, plain & simple. And it could happen again. And again. And again. Not easy to predict efficiency when you don't own the mill.

Pretty aggressive post, like it.

Already ordered a mill will be in Friday. Thanks for your thoughts

 

[dmtaylor]

For what it's worth, I can get 90% efficiency with a tight crush and only a 40-minute mash. It's all about the crush. Mash time *can* help if the crush is less than stellar, but the mash time doesn't matter a whole lot anymore if you crush hard enough. Tighten the gap until you get a stuck runoff, then on subsequent batches, back it off just a hair to prevent that issue. Then life will become perfect in a small way.

Cheers!

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Measure the CONVERSION efficiency. If it's low, you can adjust mash pH, crush, or time. Time is a not always hepful though, as you're racing the enzymes deactivating as well.

 

[Sammy86]

Well, my new mill came in the mail today but already have my next brew day planned and had them Mill the grains so one more 90 minute mash and then time to figure out the new mill! Thanks for all the replies everyone!

 

[Gnomebrewer]

You could put the milled grain through your mill (double milling) to make sure it's fine enough.

 

[pigroaster]

You could take a laundry sprayer and spray 2 ounces of water in a ten gallon batch of malt. Spray, mix in, let sit 10 minutes for moisture to get in hulls and mill. Save 1 pound dry grain to clean your rollers after you mill your spritzed malt. More hulls will stay intact and your numbers will go up! I use a credit card to set my rollers. Yes, you can go closer but I get 84-86% doing this method.

 

[schematix]

Last couple years the malts coming out of Europe have had high gelatinization temps. A couple degrees in to mash temp makes a huge difference.

Mashing at 148 for an hour may yield poor results while 152 may be just fine.

I usually buy whole sacks and I always get the malt data sheet so I know what I'm working with.

 

[Lefou]

Higher gelatinization temps on Continental malt? What could cause it?
Interesting, because I like Dingeman and Weyermann malts and have had efficiency issues, too. In order to remedy that, I crushed my own grain, added a bit more mash water, and increased mashing time.

 

[schematix]

Dry conditions cause it.

Most around here won't notice the issue due to using single infusion mashes.

Step mashing where there are rests below the gel temp will cause major issues though.