Mash out

[tjmac5071]

I am curious how people with a cooler setup mash out. My current setup is a 10 gallon beverage cooler and I never paid much attention to mash out, but now I am trying to fine tune my process.

I have a 15 gallon kettle, 8 gallon and several others two propane burners but only use one. When I put a recipe in Beersmith I typically have a mash out of .5 or 1 gallon but I heat all my sparge water together.

At 168 or so half a gallon isn't going to raise my temp enough it seems. I'm curious if it's standard practice to separately heat the mash out water higher. I could easily do it but never have.

 

[stpug]

When I mashout, which is not often since I batch sparge, I simply infuse with the prescribed amount of boiling water into my cooler to reach my mashout temperature.

 

[azscoob]

My process involves a "mash out" step, all I really do is calculate the volume lost to absorption and bring that to a boil and add it in, then I let it rest a few and vorlauf as usual... All my mash out really does is make my preboil volume easier to figure out.. If I dough in with 4 gallons, my first runnings are going to be 3 gallons and a few ounces, makes it tougher to nail your kettle volume. If I mash out with what was lost from absorption my first runnings are 4 gallons so I know I need to sparge with 3 gallons to nail my post boil volume given my known boil off rate in my kettle.

 

[wilserbrewer]

You can also overheat your sparge water, add for mashout, then add addition water to temper down to sparge temp.

 

[GrogNerd]

My process involves a "mash out" step, all I really do is calculate the volume lost to absorption and bring that to a boil and add it in, then I let it rest a few and vorlauf as usual... All my mash out really does is make my preboil volume easier to figure out.. If I dough in with 4 gallons, my first runnings are going to be 3 gallons and a few ounces, makes it tougher to nail your kettle volume. If I mash out with what was lost from absorption my first runnings are 4 gallons so I know I need to sparge with 3 gallons to nail my post boil volume given my known boil off rate in my kettle.

this is good stuff

 

[depper]

My process involves a "mash out" step, all I really do is calculate the volume lost to absorption and bring that to a boil and add it in, then I let it rest a few and vorlauf as usual... All my mash out really does is make my preboil volume easier to figure out.. If I dough in with 4 gallons, my first runnings are going to be 3 gallons and a few ounces, makes it tougher to nail your kettle volume. If I mash out with what was lost from absorption my first runnings are 4 gallons so I know I need to sparge with 3 gallons to nail my post boil volume given my known boil off rate in my kettle.

I took this advice about 4 brews ago and my efficiency has been almost 80% consistently! I don't know if this is the sole reason for such great efficiency but I will continue to use this step, even though I use a single batch sparge. This helps me calculate so I get close to a 50/50 split from mash runnings and sparge runnings to get my pre-boil volume! This is great advice!!

 

[tjmac5071]

You can also overheat your sparge water, add for mashout, then add addition water to temper down to sparge temp.

That seems almost too easy and obvious... Looks like I will try this next time. Thanks for the idea.

 

[tjmac5071]

You can also overheat your sparge water, add for mashout, then add addition water to temper down to sparge temp.

Edit...app froze and double posted

 

[olotti]

So I was dble sparging and I'd heat my first sparge to about 205 deg and that would bring the grist to 166-168 then I'd add the second sparge at 190 to keep the grist around 166. With a single sparge I just heat up to 205 and then sparge and it usually gets to 168-170. My strike temp with my sparge will very based on the temp of the grain after I drain all first runnings. I know I lose 2 gal to absorption and tun dead space since I use a false bottom so I usually collect 3-3.5 gal first running then sparge to collect my remaining amount usually 4-4.5 gal to get a 7.5 gal pre boil volume.

 

[madscientist451]

I first calculate the total water I'll need.
I'll use simple numbers , not an actual recipe scenario, for clarity.
Lets say that my wort to fermenor + evaporation loss + absorption loss + waste =10 gallons. So 10 gallons is my total water. I'm using 12 lbs of grain and have a ratio of 1.25 qt/lb for the mash. So my strike water is 15 qts or 3.75 gallons.
I'll use an on line rest calculator, like the one on green bay rackers, to figure the mashout water quantity. If I'm mashing at 150 and the mashout temp is 168, I have to add 7.1 qts (round off to 7 qts.) of boiling water to the mash to bring the mash temp to 168. Plug in your mash temp, water/grain ratio, lbs of grain, current temp and target temp. to get your mashout water temperature. I use a separate pot to boil the mashout water addition.
Anyway I've used 22 qts of my calculated 40 qts (10 gallons) of water so all I have to do is run off the first runnings, and sparge with 18 qts , run that off and I'm ready to boil.

 

[schematix]

For a long time I mashed in a cooler for an hour and would top off, then sparge with overheated water (about 180F, had a hard time pumping anything hotter that slow).

Then one day it hit me... the boil kettle is sitting there doing nothing the whole time. So I did a few batches where i step mashed (including mash out) in the BK, then used a bucket to scoop it over to the cooler until it was light enough to pick up and dump. Then i'd vorlauf the mash while i rinsed the BK out.

 

[doug293cz]

If you're doing a batch sparge, or no-sparge process, and a mash out improves your efficiency, it's most likely because your starch to sugar conversion was incomplete. In the case of unfinished conversion, the higher temp increases the activity of the alpha amylase, thus speeding up conversion, until the alpha amylase gets denatured. If your conversion was complete, then mash out would not increase your efficiency. The temperature of your sparge water also doesn't matter as far as efficiency is concerned. Kai demonstrated that here.

The original purpose of a mash out was to denature the amylase enzymes to stop starch to sugar conversion and "freeze" the sugar profile (molecular weight distribution) of the wort prior to a rather long fly sparge, so that the beer would have the desired fermentability and body. If you don't mash out when fly sparging, the alpha amylase will continue breaking down polysaccharides into simple sugars (that are fermentable) and your beer may come out dryer and with less body than desired.

Denaturing the enzymes in the mash is not necessary when doing batch or no sparge. First run off can be done very quickly, and the wort started heating for boil. This does the same thing as a mash out with the first runnings. A batch sparge can be done in 10% - 20% time of a fly sparge, and since it's second runnings, the amount of additional saccharification is insignificant.

All that said, if you are batch, or no sparging, doing a mash out will not negatively impact your beer. So, if you are more comfortable with a mash out, then keep doing it.

Brew on