Mash out question regarding temp. & step process

[user 141939]

When you check with iodine do you include some of the grain or just the wort? The wort should always be negative at the end of the mash period but the particles of grain may still contain starches.

Just the wort as I have always read to avoid grains when you are doing it. I'll do Kai's conversion efficiency test. I suspect if I am not getting full conversion it could be due to not stirring enough or my crush? All my other stuff is pretty standard (i.e. temp in the low 150s, pH 5.2 - 5.4, 1.25 liquor to grist - although sometimes I do go thinner I guess, 60 minute mash). My crush could be finer but I do that on purpose, and I only stir a couple times. Once at beginning, once when I grab pH sample (10 - 20 minutes in) and once at the end of mash.

Obviously I should stop doing the mash out, since apparently I'm not really doing it anyways.

If the conversion efficiency test does show it's not complete, is that a bad thing? I mean I currently get around %70 efficiency according to beersmith and am happy with that. I used to get more but I backed off on the crush a bit to help sparging.

Thanks everyone for taking the time. Sorry OP for highjacking your thread!

 

[GJOCONNELL]

Just a caution here, Beersmith is only as good as what you put in. It's pretty common to see posts like "Beersmith told me to do x and my numbers came out all wrong." Technically you should be telling Beersmith what to do. The default values may or may not get you close - you need set up you own equipment profile for boil off, deadspace, and other losses. You need to tell it whether you are preheating or not, and enter things like grain temp. You can use the defaults for mash thickness if you wish, though you should really be looking at all that and adjusting to what you want.

Yes, I was inputting all my equipment stuff from keggles to infusion mash tun and equipment loss (1.25 gallons) and all that jazz.

 

[masonsjax]

@mclaughlindw4 I appreciate your humility here. You are taking the advice and are willing to rethink your process. Well done.

Looking at the pics of your mash tun, my first thought is that the braid is stretched a bit at the connection points, maybe leaving some gaps that are letting bigger particles through. You said you already tried a single braid and a bazooka though. My smaller mash tun uses a single braid and my larger one has a single copper pipe with slits along the bottom. Neither let much other than clean wort through after a pint or so of vorlouf, if I even bother. I'd probably go back to a single braid over what you've got there though.

So looking at all the evidence and advice so far, I'm thinking you could go a little tighter with your grain mill. I often do 20-30 min mash and see negligible difference in OG and fermentability vs one hour. There are probably a lot of other variables at play because not everyone that has played with it sees the same results, but after an hour, if you still see a bump in gravity doing a mashout, your crush is probably too coarse.

 

[tsl346]

2. Do I bring the mash out water to a boil to raise the temp of the mash to 170 and let rest for 10 minutes? Yes

3. How much mash out water do I need for a 13 lbs grain build? I tried to find a calc. to show me how much but couldn't figure out how much mash water should be boiled and to what temp and then how much sparge water I should heat up to 170.
For 13lb grain bill with a mash density of 1.5 qts/lb you will need 2.75 gallons of boiling water to take your mash from 150 to 170. This water should then be taken out of your sparge water. This is calculated from a generic energy balance equation solved for the mass of water.
Mmash*Cpmash*(Tmashout-Tmash)/(CpBoil*(Tboil-Tmashout))=Mwater

For my system I use a heat capacity of the mash/mash tun as 0.9. This works well for me but will depend a little on mash density and a lot on type of mash tun

See notes in red

 

[RM-MN]

Just the wort as I have always read to avoid grains when you are doing it. I'll do Kai's conversion efficiency test. I suspect if I am not getting full conversion it could be due to not stirring enough or my crush? All my other stuff is pretty standard (i.e. temp in the low 150s, pH 5.2 - 5.4, 1.25 liquor to grist - although sometimes I do go thinner I guess, 60 minute mash). My crush could be finer but I do that on purpose, and I only stir a couple times. Once at beginning, once when I grab pH sample (10 - 20 minutes in) and once at the end of mash.

Obviously I should stop doing the mash out, since apparently I'm not really doing it anyways.

If the conversion efficiency test does show it's not complete, is that a bad thing? I mean I currently get around %70 efficiency according to beersmith and am happy with that. I used to get more but I backed off on the crush a bit to help sparging.

Thanks everyone for taking the time. Sorry OP for highjacking your thread!

It's not a bad thing if you don't get 100% efficiency and if you are happy with your efficiency and it is consistent, ignore all the advice about raising it. You fit in fine with the majority of brewers.

If the "mashout step" you are doing is helping you with control of the fermentability of your beer and the extra time doesn't bother you keep on doing it but with the understanding of what it really is accomplishing. You might be able to accomplish the same thing with a higher mash temp for a longer mash period too but that is speculation on my part.

If you are having difficulty with your sparge not draining quickly don't crush any finer or use a different method of separating the wort from the grains. One of them that seems to be pretty effective and can use a much finer crush is to line your mash tun with "Swiss Voille" or curtain material. This will form a very large filter area so it never plugs and if your drain isn't going fast enough you can draw the edges of the fabric together to make a bag and lift it to expose more of the filter area, much as we do when we BIAB.

 

[Denny]

Just the wort as I have always read to avoid grains when you are doing it. I'll do Kai's conversion efficiency test. I suspect if I am not getting full conversion it could be due to not stirring enough or my crush? All my other stuff is pretty standard (i.e. temp in the low 150s, pH 5.2 - 5.4, 1.25 liquor to grist - although sometimes I do go thinner I guess, 60 minute mash). My crush could be finer but I do that on purpose, and I only stir a couple times. Once at beginning, once when I grab pH sample (10 - 20 minutes in) and once at the end of mash.

Obviously I should stop doing the mash out, since apparently I'm not really doing it anyways.

If the conversion efficiency test does show it's not complete, is that a bad thing? I mean I currently get around %70 efficiency according to beersmith and am happy with that. I used to get more but I backed off on the crush a bit to help sparging.

Thanks everyone for taking the time. Sorry OP for highjacking your thread!

70% brewhouse efficiency is fine, but when you get that your underlying conversion efficiency should be close to 100%. Crush finer and increase your liquor/grist ration to at least 1.65 qt./lb.

 

[user 141939]

Ok thanks everyone. I'm gonna stop the "mash out " and go back to just trying to drain and boil as quick as possible. Not sure why I have issues with stuck sparges. I've given up modifying the mash tun since I've tried so many things already.

My coarser crush has been helping, so I'll keep that how it is for now and eventually get a bag, (something I've thinking about doing anyways to try some BIAB).

Will definitely play around with kai's formulas, Thanks for that Denny. And will think about all the suggestions here. Thanks everyone, sorry I was a bit hostile at first. It's my nature but I'm trying to change!