Marris Otter vs Pale 2 Row?

[BrewMeister49]

I have been brewing AG for a while and have never really tried MO. Not sure why but now I am kind of interested. I have heard it is biscuity vs pale 2 row. Why arent people using more of it as a base if it lends more of a flavor profile? I am planning on an IPA next and trying it as my base at 90% of the grain bill but am just curious why its not used more?

 

[Bosh]

It costs more for one.

 

[ncsuwerewolf]

Malty british beers benefit from additional cost. American hoppy ales dont need it as much . And it can cost as much a double.

 

[Oginme]

I use MO as the base malt for all my English, Scottish, and Irish styles and a rare few American styles. I use mostly 2-row pale malt for most of the American styles. For the most part, I have not particularly cared for the toasty, biscuit notes in American pale ales or IPAs the couple of times I have tried it.

 

[PGEduardo]

I love west coast IPAs, and I think mo/centennial is the perfect SMASH brew... Never tried 2 row SMASH though.

 

[finnb]

They say you'll get close to the effect of MO if you take ordinary pale malt and mix in 2% light munich. (A corollary would be that there's little point in using MO if you have some light munich in the recipe, wouldn't it?)

I don't really know, I haven't tried that - but "they" actually were my malt suppliers. And they certainly had nothing to gain from giving me that advice.

 

[Quaker]

I commonly use 50/50 MO and 2-row as the base of my American pale ales with a little light caramel (20-30). I used to use 2-row as the base with some Victory. I like the blend with MO better.

 

[BrewMeister49]

I was looking at cost at my LHBS and its negligible. Maybe a .25 per pound increase. I've done plenty of 2 row SMaSH brews. I wonder how it would do in an IPA? Or maybe 1/2 2 row 1/2 MO?

 

[moreb33rplz]

I use it as base malt of IPA all the time. I don't think it's that different from 2-row.

 

[BrewMeister49]

I use it as base malt of IPA all the time. I don't think it's that different from 2-row.

Do you use it as 100% base? I guess I enjoy malty/bready base in my IPA's as well as the hoppiness. I just don't want to over do it. But it sounds like it's subtle.

 

[finnb]

^
Try this one: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi4nXJBIhss[/ame]

Recipe:
OG: 16,8 °P
FG: 4 °P
7 % abv
ca. 80-100 IBU

Malt: (This is what I use for a double+ batch)
14.0 kg Thomas Fawcett maris otter pale malt
0.6 kg Thomas Fawcett pale crystal malt, 70 EbC
0.6 kg Thomas Fawcett crystal malt, 130-150 EBC

Hops:
0,6 g/l Simcoe, 30 min.
0,6 g/l Columbus, 30 min.
0,6 g/l Centennial, 30 min.
0,6 g/l Simcoe, 15 min.
0,6 g/l Columbus, 15 min.
0,6 g/l Centennial, 15 min.
0,6 g/l Simcoe, 0 min.
0,6 g/l Columbus, 0 min.
0,6 g/l Centennial, 0 min.
0,7 g/l Simcoe, dryhopping in secondary
0,7 g/l Columbus,dryhopping in secondary
0,7 g/l Centennial, dryhopping in secondary
0,7 g/l Amarillo, dryhopping in secondary

Wyeast 1318. Pitch at 19, let rise to 21 towards the end of the main fermentation. Open fermentation for 4 days, rack to closed secondary.

This is an amazing beer, brewed by the Norwegian brewery Kinn. It's called Vestkyst (= West Coast), and is perhaps the most popular of all craft brewed beers here. I prefer wlp013 when brewing it, though.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Aside from Golden Promise in Scottish Ales, almost all of my beers are based either in Continental pils malt (I either buy Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pils, or Dingemans Pils, depending on which region I'm brewing more of and then use it for the other too), and all the rest of my English, Irish, AND American beers get Maris Otter (I'm partial to Thomas Fawcett MO). Then again, I like all of my beers to have a noticeable malt presence, my sporadic American ales included (I don't brew many of them).

You may find if you're going for a super-clean, super hoppy IPA (Pliny-esque), that the malt may show up too much using MO, and the clean and bland character of generic US 2 row may actually work better. But I don't ever really brew that type of beer, so it makes no difference to me.

 

[specharka]

I almost never use American 2-row anymore. Not that it's boring, but my LHBS charges the same amount for all base malts and adjuncts (they are effing awesome), and given the preference I will always choose Pils or Maris Otter over American 2-row. I just don't brew many beers that I look for a clean finish in.

 

[moreb33rplz]

Do you use it as 100% base? I guess I enjoy malty/bready base in my IPA's as well as the hoppiness. I just don't want to over do it. But it sounds like it's subtle.

Yep, 100%. I also cut it 50/50 with 2-row and Pils sometimes. I bet I could tell a difference if I tried them back to back, but I catch myself looking at my notes to see which one it was when I cant remember or tell by taste.

 

[Rev2010]

I too tend to prefer Maris Otter for some beers over 2-row. I switched my Pumpkin Ale from 2-row to Maris and enjoy it more. I still use 2-row for my IPA and amber though, but Maris Otter is pretty awesome.

But as said, it's more expensive and for beers where you want the malt to be more of a background supporting base regular 2-row often is a preferable choice.


Rev.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Have any of the people reporting a preference done a triangle test actually comparing the two beers side by side by side? I can't tell the different in most styles unless it's a particularly clean beer like a lager or a more sessionable hoppy beer without too much bitternes.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I've done 2 row and MO side by side before, and the MO won hands down (style was an English Bitter though).

 

[Quaker]

No triangle test. The difference is so distinct it was obvious on my base malt trials a couple years back.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=404932

 

[Rev2010]

Have any of the people reporting a preference done a triangle test actually comparing the two beers side by side by side?

I have not, I'll submit that. What I will say though is I've done tons of pumpkin ales and the last 3-4 or so I'd switched to Maris Otter and definitely find the malt body more present and more enjoyable than when I've used Rahr and Briess so I've stuck to using it. Not scientific I know, but it's what I've found to prefer in another beer or two of mine. Again though, I haven't completely switched all 2-row to Maris, just certain beers benefit from it more.


Rev.

 

[chickypad]

Yep, 100%. I also cut it 50/50 with 2-row and Pils sometimes. I bet I could tell a difference if I tried them back to back, but I catch myself looking at my notes to see which one it was when I cant remember or tell by taste.

This is my experience with highly hopped American styles as well. The grains I buy in bulk are also MO, pils, and Am 2-row - for AIPA's I might use a single one of those as base or a combo, depending on what I'm trying to use up. Usually when just drinking one keg at a time I'm hard pressed to remember what the base malt combo it is, I suppose there's a chance I might notice a difference drinking side by side. At least to me it's way less noticeable than in other styles.

 

[Owly055]

Considering the preference for MO, it's surprising that it is not grown and malted in the US...

H.W.

 

[BrewSavage]

Considering the preference for MO, it's surprising that it is not grown and malted in the US...

H.W.

I haven't looked closely, but it seems it is only the British maltsters that sell varietals. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[JKaranka]

Watch out for when Chevalier barley malts go on sale again, though! I assume it will have more of a premium than MO. MO is about 5% more expensive here than other 2row. Can't get US 2row, mind :/

http://zythophile.co.uk/2013/04/15/...ty-thrills-fans-of-old-beer-styles/#more-3434

 

[Owly055]

Watch out for when Chevalier barley malts go on sale again, though! I assume it will have more of a premium than MO. MO is about 5% more expensive here than other 2row. Can't get US 2row, mind :/

http://zythophile.co.uk/2013/04/15/...ty-thrills-fans-of-old-beer-styles/#more-3434

I've encountered a number of web pages discussing the work various people an institutions are doing to find varieties of barley better suited to craft brewing. Craft brewers use around triple the amount of barley per gallon as the big boys due to not using adjuncts, and are an increasingly important market for malt houses. People ranging from institutions like OSU to an individual farmer in Idaho are pursuing this, and the goal is to produce malts in the US that will be imported to Europe and elsewhere instead of the opposite. Craft malting facilities are springing up all over, producing a tiny fraction of what the big maltsters do, and often using techniques that went out of vogue hundreds of years ago.

It was inevitable, with the exciting result will be that we as home brewers will be able to double the cost of our grain bill, and find craft beers on tap at 7 or 8 dollars a glass far more commonly. It also means that seed will be available so we can grow these exciting new varietals in our own back yard, and floor malt them in our own basements. It means that for example, I who live in grain country could contract with friends who farm grain to grow quantities of various specialty barley varieties and broker them to craft maltsters, or become one myself...... something that was virtually unheard of in recent times.

Craft brewing has created an explosion in supporting industries, and a constant stream of new products and new hop varieties. It has created opportunity. I would suggest that even brewing water will soon be a marketable commodity. That "Big Spring Brewing Water" from Lewistown, Montana for example might be shipped in unit trains to Illinois or Arkansas, Pennsylvania or New Mexico because it has that special character that makes a superlative beer. Both Olympia and Coors make a big deal over their water, something the Milwaukee brewers never dared to do. What will it be next in home brewing? Barley and water are the next big thing I suspect.

H.W.

 

[Ramitt]

Water is to easy to replicate with RO and minerals, shipping that volume would be ridiculous. I could see a lhbs selling ro premixed with minerals, but breweries buying thousands of gallons shipped across the country, no.