Mark 2 Keg Washer

[culaslucas]

Man, those went fast!!!!

They went out in under 5 minutes!

 

[bastardbrewer]

Wow!! I cant believe I even got one, I must have just have checked the website at the right minute.

 

[culaslucas]

Okay - after trying mine on a carboy, 8 cornys, 1 better bottle and 5 buckets, I have some feedback.

I am somewhat disappointed in this $70 (with discount) product.

A few thoughts:

1.) When attempting to attach the 3/16" hose to the tee that goes to the ball lock connector, without overt pressure, I twisted the connection off - see picture below. This resulted in a $10 home improvement store run even before getting started.

2.) SPLASHING. holy. splashing. Over the course of PBWing the above items, I lost 1/2 gallon of liquid. It got so bad that I had to place a large tupperware lid under the keg washer to catch all of the excess fluid. This device would be a lot better off if the lip was about an inch taller. Per the instructions I added the shrub sprinkler with no noticeable change.

3.) No drain? Seriously? You're right, it's not THAT difficult of a job to tilt the thing out into a bucket but after a few instances of spilling I found myself siphoning. I promptly ran to Lowes and installed my own drain solution.

In hindsight I wish I would have built my own, saved a fair amount of cash and got a product I was comfortable would do such a simple job.

 

[kincade]

Okay - after trying mine on a carboy, 8 cornys, 1 better bottle and 5 buckets, I have some feedback.

I am somewhat disappointed in this $70 (with discount) product.

A few thoughts:

1.) When attempting to attach the 3/16" hose to the tee that goes to the ball lock connector, without overt pressure, I twisted the connection off - see picture below. This resulted in a $10 home improvement store run even before getting started.

2.) SPLASHING. holy. splashing. Over the course of PBWing the above items, I lost 1/2 gallon of liquid. It got so bad that I had to place a large tupperware lid under the keg washer to catch all of the excess fluid. This device would be a lot better off if the lip was about an inch taller. Per the instructions I added the shrub sprinkler with no noticeable change.

3.) No drain? Seriously? You're right, it's not THAT difficult of a job to tilt the thing out into a bucket but after a few instances of spilling I found myself siphoning. I promptly ran to Lowes and installed my own drain solution.

In hindsight I wish I would have built my own, saved a fair amount of cash and got a product I was comfortable would do such a simple job.

Culas; I"d recommend you email Mark ASAP and I'm sure he will address your issues. I know your #1 is in the process of being remedied already. I had no such problem but I'm aware of a few others that have.

Regarding #2, I've never had mine spash. At all. Not with a carboy, not with a keg. Maybe you have the fill level too high?

Regarding #3, I also would like a drain. But Mark made the point that a drain means something could leak, which could damage something should a gallon of PBW drain out while unattended. Since its so easy to lift and dump I don't consider it to be much of an issue at all.

 

[Brew-ta-sauraus]

I built my own keg washer with a 6.5 gallon bucket, a cheap 1HP sump pump from Harbor Freight, and a few PVC fittings. It works VERY well and I also added QD hookups for the gas and liquid dip tubes to blast them out while the wand is spraying. I cleaned out about 10 kegs with it the other day while I was doing some other stuff in the garage. Just a gallon of hot PBW solution and left them on there for maybe 5 minutes each, and they come out looking absolutely pristine no matter how grimy they were before.

Please post some pics of your unit and build photos if you have them.

 

[culaslucas]

Culas; I"d recommend you email Mark ASAP and I'm sure he will address your issues. I know your #1 is in the process of being remedied already. I had no such problem but I'm aware of a few others that have.

Regarding #2, I've never had mine spash. At all. Not with a carboy, not with a keg. Maybe you have the fill level too high?

Regarding #3, I also would like a drain. But Mark made the point that a drain means something could leak, which could damage something should a gallon of PBW drain out while unattended. Since its so easy to lift and dump I don't consider it to be much of an issue at all.

Thanks Kincade, I'll e-mail mark to get his feedback.

With regards to the spilling, it happened most often with the 6.5 gallon buckets. This wasn't a result of the fill level being too high (as I did experiment with various amounts of liquid), but can likely be attributed to too high pressure causing the water to flow around the lips of the container and out of the catch pan.

I didn't notice this before but now that I look at the pump, it seems I could adjust the flow by turning the front inlet closed?

This being said, I believe this issue could be resolved by increasing the height of the lip above the catch pan.

 

[kincade]

Thanks Kincade, I'll e-mail mark to get his feedback.

With regards to the spilling, it happened most often with the 6.5 gallon buckets. This wasn't a result of the fill level being too high (as I did experiment with various amounts of liquid), but can likely be attributed to too high pressure causing the water to flow around the lips of the container and out of the catch pan.

I didn't notice this before but now that I look at the pump, it seems I could adjust the flow by turning the front inlet closed?

This being said, I believe this issue could be resolved by increasing the height of the lip above the catch pan.

Yes, you can turn the flow down on the pump, although I usually leave it full open for kegs and carboys... Buckets might warrant a slower flow though.

I can tell you that Mark was very responsive to the few minor problems I had with my unit and solved them immediately. He is currently working on a few long term fixes for a few issues (the barb for instance) that to my knowledge should have fixes in a few weeks.

I'll probably put a drain in mine as well, just because I use mine in a laundry sink and it would be very convenient to drain it there. I'm thinking one of the grommets like you would find in a baby bathtub.

 

[culaslucas]

I'll post some pictures of mine at some point.

My other mod at some point might be to add in a heater of sorts. I stuck one of these jobbers below in a very small bromex beaker on a piece of tile to keep the water warm as the recirculation causes the temp to drop very quickly. It worked nicely but I was definitely watching it like a hawk because of the possibility of melting.

 

[kincade]

The heater is a great idea... I really like that.

 

[culaslucas]

The heater is a great idea... I really like that.

Thanks - I've googled around a bit and haven't found anything that would work for this particular application. I'm all ears for ideas!

EDIT: I'm thinking an aquarium heater would work - the challenge is that most I've seen are either a.) too big or b.) don't go beyond 94* or so.

 

[culaslucas]

FYI - I wrote Mark and here is his response:

1.) When attempting to attach the 3/16" hose to the tee that goes to the ball lock connector, without overt pressure, I twisted the connection off - see picture below. This resulted in a $10 home improvement store run even before getting started.

The vendor used low quality HDPE without my knowing it, there are appearently several grades of hdpe, I am having them run a batch in higher quality HDPE and also in Nylon. A few guys have reported this problem. If you keep the unit, send me your address and I will replace the one that broke.

2.) SPLASHING. holy. splashing. Over the course of PBWing the above items, I lost 1/2 gallon of liquid. It got so bad that I had to place a large tupperware lid under the keg washer to catch all of the excess fluid. This device would be a lot better off if the lip was about an inch taller. Per the instructions I added the shrub sprinkler with no noticeable change.

Some of the bigger buckets that go right up to the edge will spash over the edge depending on how the bottom of the bucket is formed. The sprinker head worked on the ones I tested. You might also try reducing the pump flow by partially closing the input to the pump. Some buckets are just going to splash no matter what I do. Buckets are fairly easy to clean by hand, carboys and kegs are where the keg and carboy washer really does the job. Did you lose the 1/2 gallon mostly on the bucket? Was the 1/2 gallon lost after all the items mentioned (8 corny kegs, etc)? The unit is really not designed to clean that many items in a row, although, I guess you could. It is really meant to be used while brewing, like sanitizing a keg, then cleaning a carboy. My whole idea was to make setup and use so easy that dirty stuff would not pile up to be cleaned later. If you were cleaning a bunch of stuff like that, I'd just do that in the utility room or the back patio and anticipate some splashing.

3.) No drain? Seriously? You're right, it's not THAT difficult of a job to tilt the thing out into a bucket but after a few instances of spilling I found myself siphoning. I promptly ran to Lowes and installed my own drain solution.
I designed it not to have a drain, leak considerations. I made it light enough to just dump out. I will probably never break even on this unit, getting plastic injection molds are very expensive. A drain would have cost about $10,000 in addtional mold costs. A drain in the side would not have completely drained the unit and people would have complained about that, so I couldn't win on that one either way. At less than 7 pounds full of water, I did not see it coming that people would want a drain so badly. I just take the carboy and stand off, rinse the pump and then dump the dirty liquid in the sink and rinse it off all at the same time.

In hindsight I wish I would have built my own, saved a fair amount of cash and got a product I was comfortable would do such a simple job.

Sorry you are so unhappy with the unit, go ahead and return it to more beer, they will be very happy to refund your money. Lots of guys make their own keg washers. Check you tube for lots of examples. I made this unit for people who did not want to go to the trouble of building their own, but it's not for everybody. Also, I have never taken a sump pump apart, so not sure what is inside and if it will stay as clean as I wanted it to. Most of the do-it-yourself stuff uses a sump pump.
Thanks for your feed back

Cheers,

Mark

and mine...

Mark,

Thank you for your prompt reply. For the record, I am not "so unhappy" that I am interested in returning the product. I was simply concerned with the quality of product I got for the money.

I am rather satisfied with your response and candor. I simply wanted to get a sense of what can be done to remedy the challenges I am having from a pro. It is rather unusual to be able to speak with the proprietor directly and your reply is much appreciated. The high level of customer service you provide will go a long way in communities like HomeBrewTalk.com.

I look forward to the updates that will help make the product more complete.

Best Regards,
--
Lucas

 

[jdrollason]

Does anyones pumps make a crackle like sound when it starts up. Finally got mine, and ran it with water and OxyClean. Crackle Crackle Crackle, and then it pushes an awesome stream of steady water, with no more sounds other than the traditional sound of a pump moving water. My water level is good. I even ran it in my sink with more than enough water, still get the crackles. I e-mailed Mark, and am waiting for his reply.

 

[culaslucas]

Yes - I have this too. Also, there have been several times when plugging it in does nothing. Unplug, plug in, nothing, unplug, plug in, nothing, unplug, plug in - boom, it starts up.

 

[kincade]

The 'crackle' sound is the water/fluid priming throughout the pump. All similar pumps should make this sound. Even the pond pumps will sound the same.

If the pump isn't working, that's either the pump or the outlet and not related to the sound.

 

[kincade]

Mark's keg washer is on deal of the day at Morebeer today. 13 left at this time.

 

[TheSlash]

I got one woot. I also had built my own. But between trying to make too many connections to clean too many things, and instability, I broke down and ordered this one. 89 shipped is crazy. First keg washer looked much better though, but I think this one will do fine and I can use my current pump to recirc an icebath for wort chilling!

Thanks mark!

 

[oakbarn]

We obtained a "free dishwasher" and cut it in half. I screwed and siliconed the door. I wired up two switches in a waterproof box to the side. I plumbed Ball lock gas and beer out to the drain ( as well as a garden hose connection). I did hot glue closed the out side holes in the central spray assembly, We can clean our 27 Gallon Stout conical as well as a 45 gallon Stout Mash Tun with ease. Cost about $50. Larger footprint but will clean more things. It also does not splash. Uses about 2 gallons of PBW!

 

[strumke]

We obtained a "free dishwasher" and cut it in half. I screwed and siliconed the door. I wired up two switches in a waterproof box to the side. I plumbed Ball lock gas and beer out to the drain ( as well as a garden hose connection). I did hot glue closed the out side holes in the central spray assembly, We can clean our 27 Gallon Stout conical as well as a 45 gallon Stout Mash Tun with ease. Cost about $50. Larger footprint but will clean more things. It also does not splash. Uses about 2 gallons of PBW!

Sounds like a beast...photos???

 

[Jazong]

What about a connection for the gas side. To me this is a glaring design flaw that should be fixed in a subsequent model.

-J

 

[kincade]

What about a connection for the gas side. To me this is a glaring design flaw that should be fixed in a subsequent model.

-J

I use a simple "t" and a qd for both the liquid and gas sides. I wouldnt call it a flaw as some dont want to clean the gas side and for those who do a "t" and a qd are the only additions. My "t" cost less than a dollar.

 

[Jazong]

Does the pump have enough juice to run cleaner through both? I shouldn't have to modify the thing to get it to do its job. Why wouldn't someone want to clean the gas side?

-J

 

[kincade]

Does the pump have enough juice to run cleaner through both? I shouldn't have to modify the thing to get it to do its job. Why wouldn't someone want to clean the gas side?

-J

Yes, it does have enough power. However many people take the posts off to clean a keg just as i do every other time. What you are asking IS a modification, albeit one i find useful sometimes.

What "modification" would you have in the vext revision? Including a "t"? Have you emailed mark with your concerns?

 

[Jazong]

Contacted Mark? No, it would be just as easy to modify it myself. I think tubing and a T would be a good addition. As long as the pump can run both sides as you said.

Not sure why someone would take a keg apart to clean it when they have just purchased a keg cleaner. That would be completely counter productive. Dr. Scott from the Brewing Network has said he hasn't taken a keg apart in years, and he won gold at the National Homebrew Conference last year.

-J

 

[Bert1097]

Contacted Mark? No, it would be just as easy to modify it myself. I think tubing and a T would be a good addition. As long as the pump can run both sides as you said.

Not sure why someone would take a keg apart to clean it when they have just purchased a keg cleaner. That would be completely counter productive. Dr. Scott from the Brewing Network has said he hasn't taken a keg apart in years, and he won gold at the National Homebrew Conference last year.

-J

Some dude did this and that and look, he's a great/ award winning brewer!! Please, if you want something as clean as possible you have to take it apart and clean it. If you don't, you are assuming the risk.

Mark put together a very nice and economical cleaner for folks that didn't want to DYI (me). It's a great addition to the brew gear and one that I am more than happy with. It takes such little effort to unscrew your posts I'm not sure why anyone wouldnt. Seems like more work to connect and disconnect the QD's than just breaking out the old socket and unscrewing but this is just one man's opinion.

 

[Jazong]

I built a better one in my garage. The only reason I bought Mark's is because the dye from the sump pump I used appeared to be bleeding into the water during long cycles of washing with PBW.

I ask again, what is the point of a keg washer when you have to take it apart to clean it anyhow? I could do that without a keg washer which makes Mark's not economical at all. If it is easier to get out a wrench that to use a QD you are not doing it right. Why would QDs ever have been invented if this were the case?

Oh ya... Tell me you don't learn from the habits of other brewers who you respect. If you don't why are you on a forum if not to learn? To throw flames would be my guess?

Here is the one I built.

https://picasaweb.google.com/107574824266384481817/BrewToys#5456478500228620930

https://picasaweb.google.com/107574824266384481817/BrewToys#5456478506771530850

-J

 

[Bert1097]

I do emulate the brewers that I respect but I am quite careful not to pick up bad habits such as not taking things apart to clean them. I felt you came on this thread to throw flames yourself. Mark has said several times that he made this device for folks who didn't want to make their own. The device works very well, period.

 

[Jazong]

In my first post pointed out what I consider to be a design flaw. That was it. No flames. Every home built keg cleaner I've ever seen has a QD for the beer side and the gas side.

Once I make the modification and can actually use the keg washer I'll come back on this thread and give it a review, but for now all I can say is it is not what I expected having seen the original version (which was probably modified by the friend who owns it) and what I perceive to be a big difference in quality. I would have preferred to pay more for a piece of equipment that was at least comparable to the garage built units I've seen.

-J

 

[kincade]

Jazong, no flames here, I just disagree with you. I disagree the lack of a $.99 'T' warrants a complaint of a 'major oversight' and a needed revision in the next version. If you feel so strongly I would highly recommend emailing Mark as he has been very receptive to feedback.

On the disassembly of kegs it takes me literally less than a minute to disassemble 2 and less than a minute to assemble 2 again. That includes my time to dig my wrench out of my brewbox. As there are areas that wouldn't see heavy circulation of solution even with a high flow pump I'm not sure there is a downside but everyone is entitled to their own opinion and processes. With sanitation and cleanliness I rarely err on the side of saying 'close enough'. I credit this process to never having lost a batch to infection.

 

[kincade]

FYI, I've been talking with Mark over email about some of the improvements that could be made to the Keg washer and he has finished a few improvements. There will be a silicone grommet/spacer to raise the 6.5 gallon carboys and keep them from slipping and a nylon T-adapter which will be harder than the one currently included. From Mark:

The new parts should be arriving in about three weeks. As soon as they get here, I will be sending the grommets and nylon parts out to everybody who turned in a warranty card. Spread the word on that one if you could.

So, make sure you send in your warranty card so he can send the new parts out to you. I'm looking forward to trying them out.

 

[cino101]

Has anyone tried this on a 10 gallon or even 15 gal corny?