March pump/sparge question

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

So I ordered my first march pump. I've been planning my next brew day (and my first fly sparge day)
I noticed the pressure my HLT provides sparge water to my MLT is dependent on the volume of liquid in the kettle. Thus I've decided to use my march pump to have a constant flow to sparge with.
I planned on running a silicone hose right off of the output of the pump and into the MLT with the ball valve mostly closed at about 1pint per minute. In my plans I didnt account for installing a ball valve at the top of my MLT (like Kals design) and instead figured I could just control the flow at the output valve on my pump. In hindsight, can the pump push such a small amount of liquid vertically like that? Or do I need to run the pump valve at full blast and install a valve into the top of my cooler to control the flow?
If I have to install said valve, does anyone have any suggestions as to the cleanest way to do it?

 

[PseudoChef]

I have a ball valve on the output of my March pump. Once the entire line is primed, you can toggle the flow. There should be no issue with the pump pushing the small amount of liquid (I sparge this same way, in effect).

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

How exactly does one prime a pump? I feel like I have an idea but I'd love some light shed on the situation (i.e. step by step of how you sparge please =P)

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

By "prime" the pump, you're basically filling the entire pump head (and the lines leading to it and immediately out of it) with water.

The march pump can't create its own suction without being "full", and introducing air into the pump will cause it to lose its "prime" -- i.e. it can't pump if there's air in the head.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

Here's a rough example of what Im doing. The ugly free hand parts are either lines or valves


I'll be able to control the flow from the output valve in a position like that?(beyond the fact I need to find a way to keep the tube from falling out of the MLT

 

[Bobby_M]

Excuse the insane amount of plumber's crack.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

right, thats about what I figured. Sounds like it becomes easy with some practice.

 

[Celticway]

In my expirience, you should put a "T" on the output and 2 valves. One to control flow and one as a bleeder. This will help when your pump cavitates (and it will). You can restrict the flow to almost nothing, but do not restrict the flow on the input, as you will burn up the pump head.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I'll be able to control the flow from the output valve in a position like that?(beyond the fact I need to find a way to keep the tube from falling out of the MLT

Yes you will. That's exactly how mine is set up.

You can keep the tube from falling out using any sort of a simple clamping device. Mine is a pair of small plastic tongs that are held "closed" with rubber bands, and it allows me to hold the tube in place.

Of course, since you're going into your MLT, and since it sounds like you're fly sparging, you might want to build something like a sparge ring. Here's one I built:

http://www.brewcommune.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1686

All it took was some extra copper tubing that I had from another project, a copper "T", a drill and some solder.

Here it is in action: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/user/Backhousebrew?feature=mhum#p/u/4/v-exFecRiVg[/ame]

 

[PseudoChef]

As a March pump isn't self-priming, you need to fill the line from the HLT to the pump before the pump "catches" and starts working. I do this by closing the valve on the output of the March pump and opening the valve on the kettle. This will fill the line. Then, I'll turn on the pump and keep the end of the output line below the output of the pump until liquid starts flowing. Once it does, I'll shut the valve on the output of the pump just for the sake of stopping the flow so I don't get scalding hot water everywhere as I move the output line to the MLT to begin the sparge. Then, you can toggle the output of the sparge into the MLT to equal the output of the MLT valve using the valve at the output of the pump.

Yes, after typing that out, it is hella confusing. I don't have a picture readily available, but it would help a lot more.

 

[Mike3701]

I was doing what he said with one valve as a blessed valve and then got a 1/2" autovent and haven't had any issues priming the pump. Pump works on the first attemp everytime.
I open the valve from the kettle to the pump. With the output valve on the pump closed I turn on the pump and then open the output valves and it works great. Don't have to manually bleed the air out anymore.




I now have electric ball valves and it makes it so much easier.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

In my expirience, you should put a "T" on the output and 2 valves. One to control flow and one as a bleeder. This will help when your pump cavitates (and it will). You can restrict the flow to almost nothing, but do not restrict the flow on the input, as you will burn up the pump head.

I don't know if I understand, so like you have one valve to prime, then you shut that off and have a preset valve that handles sparge flow?
And actually PseudoChef that was pretty much exactly the info I needed.
I don't have disconnects or valve on the input of my pump(well wont once everything gets here in the mail) because of cavitation. Though I'm not sure what it is, I know its bad
So basically, I need to prime the pump, open the output into a bucket , then close and crack open slowly for my sparge rate? I guess I'm just surprised the pump can push such a small amount of liquid upward without it falling back down into itself.

Autovent sounds cool, but I have not the slightest idea what it is(and a quick bing search didn't pull up much)

 

[Mike3701]

One valve is used to just bleed the air out, nothing will be connected to it. Before the pump is turned on, crack the bleeder valve a hair and you will see and hear all the air coming out. It takes a few seconds. Once liquid starts coming out out close the valve and your pump is ready to use.

 

[Celticway]

I don't know if I understand, so like you have one valve to prime, then you shut that off and have a preset valve that handles sparge flow?
And actually PseudoChef that was pretty much exactly the info I needed.
I don't have disconnects or valve on the input of my pump(well wont once everything gets here in the mail) because of cavitation. Though I'm not sure what it is, I know its bad
So basically, I need to prime the pump, open the output into a bucket , then close and crack open slowly for my sparge rate? I guess I'm just surprised the pump can push such a small amount of liquid upward without it falling back down into itself.

Autovent sounds cool, but I have not the slightest idea what it is(and a quick bing search didn't pull up much)

I wish I had a pic for you. Basically the line going into the pump has no valve; we want that open all the way all the time. Coming out of the pump (preferably the out is facing the ceiling) I have a T. There is a ball valve facing out straight, that's my bleeder, and a ball valve pointing straight up, that's my flow control. In my case I have all hoses already hooked up. To begin, I open up all valves (source, bleeder, flow control) and let a bit if liquid cine out the bleeder. Then I close the bleeder and turn the pump on.

You can prime different ways but if your flow stops for some reason ( cavitates is when there is air trapped in the pump head and will not pump) it is very helpfully to just crack the bleeder valve a bit, flooding the pump head and continuing on.

I hope that helps!

 

[Mike3701]

Autovent:

http://www.mrsupply.com/watts-series-fv-4m1-fv-4m1-0590722.html

 

[Mike3701]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/priming-march-autovent-200246/

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

Can my outvalve face down and have a T like this? Or actually straight out?
( you can barely read that, the top is autovent and bottom is a valve)

or would this be optimal?




and finally can I do my first brew without this or is it like a pump must have?

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

So after watching that video I'm pretty sold on the autovent. I'll just have to order a T and the vent itself correct? then itll be set up like this ?


Would this mean there is no more need to bleed anything? Just open the valve and go?
Also, what's the easiest way to mount a pump vertically if I don't have a real rig? I was just gonna screw it into a board and go(similar to kals position)

 

[Mike3701]

There are many ways to do it, this is just what I'm using and it works for me. There are many people that don't use a bleeder valve or autovent. I was sick of having priming issues and went this method. You want the output of the pump facing up. Put a tee on the output and have the autovent facing straight up. Then have a valve going horizontal. Here's a closer picture of what I have. I have a cross fitting on the output but it would be setup same way.



I have one on each pump

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

I ordered this pump, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002O47P26/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 (I had spare amazon giftcards)
it appears the output is already facing up so I think I'll be golden. I'm going to try to get my first brew in, then after I recover from buying the pump,fittings,false bottom, and plate chiller, I'll buy the autovent and probably hardwire my sparge tube into the wall of my cooler.

 

[Celticway]

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

I went ahead and ordered that auto vent, I'll order the tee tonight

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Also, what's the easiest way to mount a pump vertically if I don't have a real rig? I was just gonna screw it into a board and go(similar to kals position)

Crappy pic, but here's mine:

http://mypict.me/show.php?id=lYUte

2 pumps, CFC, and pump switches all mounted to a 4x4.

If I change it, I'd go with a 2x6 rather than a 4x4, as the 4x4 occasionally wants to roll a bit more than a 2x6 would.

I drool over a nice brew rig, but a 4x4, some cinder blocks, and self-standing burners do still get the job done

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I ordered this pump, http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002O47P26/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 (I had spare amazon giftcards)
it appears the output is already facing up so I think I'll be golden.

If the output isn't facing up, a screwdriver and 2 minutes will allow you to put it in any orientation you'd like.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

Crappy pic, but here's mine:

http://mypict.me/show.php?id=lYUte

2 pumps, CFC, and pump switches all mounted to a 4x4.

If I change it, I'd go with a 2x6 rather than a 4x4, as the 4x4 occasionally wants to roll a bit more than a 2x6 would.

I drool over a nice brew rig, but a 4x4, some cinder blocks, and self-standing burners do still get the job done

Thats more my speed!
I ordered my autovent and Tee last night, as well as the fittings to have a permanent sparge hose inside my cooler. Ill just run a camlocked tube from my pump to my MLT when sparge time comes. Thanks for the help everyone

 

[Mike3701]

Make sure your camlocks are full port, not all of them are. Not having full port can restrict the amount of liquid getting to the pump and can damage the pump.

 

[jpinetti]

I was doing what he said with one valve as a blessed valve and then got a 1/2" autovent and haven't had any issues priming the pump. Pump works on the first attemp everytime.
I open the valve from the kettle to the pump. With the output valve on the pump closed I turn on the pump and then open the output valves and it works great. Don't have to manually bleed the air out anymore.

<img src="https://www.homebrewtalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=32083"/>

I now have electric ball valves and it makes it so much easier.

What's an autovent an where do I get one. I assume this hooks up right before the inlet to the pump?

 

[jpinetti]

So my page wasn't refreshed and I missed the last few posts about the autovent. Thanks for the info. Here's another question though. I have my pump below my BK. inlet facing up. Seems like this is how you would want it to prime easier rather than facing down? Explain the logic for having inlet on bottom.

 

[Thundercougarfalconbird]

Make sure your camlocks are full port, not all of them are. Not having full port can restrict the amount of liquid getting to the pump and can damage the pump.

I got them from bargainfittings and austinhomebrew... I'm not too sure >_>

The only reason my port is gonna be low is to allow the vent to be vertical