Manifold Questions

[Wingy]

So I'm starting the process of making the jump to all grain and am starting to get my materials together. I decided to make an MLT out of a 10 gallon round rubbermaid (mostly do 5 gal batches but wanted to option to switch to high gravity 5 gal and 10 gal in the future) using a copper manifold.

I've never built a manifold before (or even worked with copper tubing) so I've got a few technical questions. The first is regarding manifold tilt: I managed to cut the tubing and fit it all together, but once I put it into the cooler I realized I would either need to prop it up off the bottom a bit to get it to stay flat, OR I could just give it a slight tight such that the back of the manifold touches the bottom of the cooler while the front is slightly higher. Would this create flow problems or am I just being paranoid? The manifold is rectangular (5.5" W x 11.0" L) with two additional tubes running along the width in the interior. Built with 1/2" copper tubing.

Is soldering the copper together a good or bad idea? I would use lead-free solder but read somewhere (of course it was on the intertubes so I don't know if it's 100% reliable...) that lead-free solder can leach bad things into the beer.

One final question: is it really necessary to strip the lead from the brass fittings? I'm slightly concerned about heavy metals and am generally of the "better safe than sorry" school of thought, but if it doesn't really matter..

Thanks for your help!

 

[Dan]

Your dead space might increase slightly with the elevated front. Test it with water and find out how much is left in the cooler and decide from there.

I made a manifold out of CPVC (cheap, so no big deal to make various designs) but didn't glue it together so it would be easy to clean. It held together well, I'm sure copper tubing is the same.

To quote John Palmer's book How To Brew, "A solution of two parts white vinegar to one part hydrogen peroxide (common 3% solution) will remove tarnish and surface lead from brass parts when they are soaked for 5 minutes or less at room temperature."

 

[sonex]

how low do you have to lower the manifold for it to be flat? you possibly cold use two 45 degree ells to lower the manifold. I use a braid just b/c its easier. The brass could be boiled in vinegar to remove residual lead. I really don't think its much of a issue. You have probably been drinking water all your life through the piping in your house with many brass valves in the water lines. but everyone has to make the decision on what is acceptable to them. I would not solder the manifold. without the manifold being soldered its easier to take apart and clean.

 

[Wingy]

Thanks for the replies. The front of the manifold would be about 1/2" from the bottom of the cooler as it is right now, and since I measured/fit the tubes based on that orientation (forgetting about dead space) I can't really make an easy connection to the outlet. Two els is too much, so I'd have to use two of the 120 deg bends and that would take up enough space where I'd have to shorten the width and recut the tubes. I'll hold off on the soldering for now (unless it's leaky when I add water) but since cleaning the brass is so easy I might as well just do that too.

 

[Dan]

You could try a piece of high temp silicone tubing instead of the els. As long as it holds together you don't need to worry about leaks at the joints. The tubes are full of holes anyway

 

[Wingy]

You could try a piece of high temp silicone tubing instead of the els. As long as it holds together you don't need to worry about leaks at the joints. The tubes are full of holes anyway

Ha ha, I haven't cut the slots yet so I totally forgot about that aspect . I'll look into the high temp silicone.

 

[Dan]

 

[BrewerinBR]

Here is a picture of what I did. The tube running from the back of manifold to the front is not slotted and is connected to the T at the back, since it is not soldered it rotates. The middle cross member was placed at that position to ensure the correct angle. None of the manifold is soldered so it disassembles for easy cleaning, the entire manifold sits flat on the bottom. I cut each piece to use as much of the elbow and "T" insertion distance. The female end is held on with a coupler. Slide the coupler down and the manifold comes out without have to remove the valve or female coupler. Works well have done 8 brews with out a single issue and the dead space is less than 2 cups.
EDIT: All 1/2 inch copper

 

[Wingy]

Thanks everyone for the great responses! I switched up my plan and added a drain pipe coming from the back - this seemed like the easiest solution. I'm still dremeling away, but about 1/4 of the bottom has been slotted. On the first test there was 1 cup of dead space, so it looks like it works!

One (hopefully) final question - what's the best way to get a tight seal between the rubber washer and the brass nipple to prevent leaking? I'm using the seal that came with the cooler and it is... less than ideal.

Here's a picture of the slots I have so far... after looking through other pics I may have been a tad overzealous with the number. Should I cut back on the remaining cross bars? Width is that of the metal cutter attachment on the dremel, so that's as narrow as I can make it. Anyone forsee any problems?

 

[starsailor]

Here is a picture of what I did. The tube running from the back of manifold to the front is not slotted and is connected to the T at the back, since it is not soldered it rotates. The middle cross member was placed at that position to ensure the correct angle. None of the manifold is soldered so it disassembles for easy cleaning, the entire manifold sits flat on the bottom. I cut each piece to use as much of the elbow and "T" insertion distance. The female end is held on with a coupler. Slide the coupler down and the manifold comes out without have to remove the valve or female coupler. Works well have done 8 brews with out a single issue and the dead space is less than 2 cups.
EDIT: All 1/2 inch copper

Looks similar to what I did in a square Igloo cooler, except I drain from the center of the middle leg and all legs are offset from the sides an equal distance, about 2/3 the width is inside the manifold square. For an even flow distribution I used Palmer's "How to Brew" as a reference for the manifold dimensions and spacing relative to the sides of the tun. I'll try to get a pic when I get a chance this weekend.

 

[starsailor]

Thanks everyone for the great responses! I switched up my plan and added a drain pipe coming from the back - this seemed like the easiest solution. I'm still dremeling away, but about 1/4 of the bottom has been slotted. On the first test there was 1 cup of dead space, so it looks like it works!

One (hopefully) final question - what's the best way to get a tight seal between the rubber washer and the brass nipple to prevent leaking? I'm using the seal that came with the cooler and it is... less than ideal.

Here's a picture of the slots I have so far... after looking through other pics I may have been a tad overzealous with the number. Should I cut back on the remaining cross bars? Width is that of the metal cutter attachment on the dremel, so that's as narrow as I can make it. Anyone forsee any problems?

I used the Dremel metal cut off wheel at about double your spacing. Marked the tube with a Sharpie first to get consistant spacing then cut on the lines.
Also to hole it all together I only used a dry fit then just drilled tiny 1/32" holes across the assembled tubing and fittings then just slipped in small pieces of SS wire and bent them toward the bottom for a removable locked together fit. Works great and cleans easily too.

 

[Wingy]

I used the Dremel metal cut off wheel at about double your spacing. Marked the tube with a Sharpie first to get consistant spacing then cut on the lines.
Also to hole it all together I only used a dry fit then just drilled tiny 1/32" holes across the assembled tubing and fittings then just slipped in small pieces of SS wire and bent them toward the bottom for a removable locked together fit. Works great and cleans easily too.

Thanks! I'll make the spacing twice as big for the rest of the cuts. Any ideas on how to get a good seal between the brass nipple (ID 3/8" but OD slightly larger than 5/8") and the rubber stopper?

 

[starsailor]

Thanks! I'll make the spacing twice as big for the rest of the cuts. Any ideas on how to get a good seal between the brass nipple (ID 3/8" but OD slightly larger than 5/8") and the rubber stopper?

What stopper? Aren't you using a thru-wall bulkhead kit with an o-ring to seal against the cooler wall?

 

[Wingy]

What stopper? Aren't you using a thru-wall bulkhead kit with an o-ring to seal against the cooler wall?

Nope. I was going off of the internet conversion instructions, which suggest just saving the rubber insert that originally comes with the cooler. The bulkhead fitting seems like a much better idea... what size is appropriate for a rubbermaid 10 gal round? Diameter is 7/8" but I have no idea how sizing of bulkhead fittings works. I don't have a drill that can expand that hole. Thanks for your help!