Man, I love Apfelwein

[andrewmaixner]

I decided to do some yeast testing with my third round of making apfelwein
I did 5g with mangrove Jack's cider yeast, 5g with champagne yeast and I then I said what the heck and did 1g with old Belle saison yeast I got for free.
After 40 days the saison has dropped impeccably clear and my question is why?
A few thoughts
1) even though the saison yeast was old, perhaps it was a higher pitch rate still for the 1g batch
2) the 5g carboys have a larger diameter and may not "look" as clear
3) is there something about a smaller volume that just clears much quicker than larger volumes?
Also for reference is a fresh glass from the most recent keg, mmmmm

various possible reasons:

- different yeast have different floculation levels, which aids in dropping clear faster

- lower height clears faster, because everything has less distance to drop. are your larger vessels stratified at all, and clearer at the top?

- as you said, higher pitch can mean faster fermentation, and therefore it begins to clear sooner

- Belle Saison (rumored to be Saccharomyces cerevisiae var Diastaticus) can metabolize some polysaccharide compounds which standard Saccharomyces cerevisiae (ale) and Saccharomyces bayanus (wine) species can't. That's why it makes beers finish lower. It could have some effect on this, though that's just a guess, and I don't know if those compounds are present in apples.

 

[CU_tony]

Montrachet - low floc
MJ Cider - high floc
Belle S - low floc

The 5g carboys do not seem to have any significant stratification aside from the 1/2" of trub at the bottom

I guess really Im just looking for someone to tell me to stop drooling over the clear Saison gallon and forget about it until the other two batches are ready for packaging... Then some scientific testing can be done!

 

[andrewmaixner]

Montrachet - low floc
MJ Cider - high floc
Belle S - low floc

The 5g carboys do not seem to have any significant stratification aside from the 1/2" of trub at the bottom

I guess really Im just looking for someone to tell me to stop drooling over the clear Saison gallon and forget about it until the other two batches are ready for packaging... Then some scientific testing can be done!

40 days in? Presuming they are all at terminal gravity, bottle them up and start tasting any that give a good sample while you are bottling, see how it changes as they age.

 

[CU_tony]

The 5 gallon batches will be kegged sometime in March, one of the batches TBD is destined for a wedding, but not before I do some testing to see if I prefer the cider or champagne yeast, also I'm intrigued by the saison batch, and feel like I should wait the same amount of time before touching that as well.

 

[benco]

I'm interested especially in the MJ. What's the OG on those if you have it.

 

[CU_tony]

I'm out of town, but I don't actually think I've taken an OG reading for any of my last 4 batches, I will surely report the FG when I rack to a keg to see what sort of attenuation the MJ has.
I can certainly say %100 that the MJ smelled better the whole time, no rhino farts just apple scent

 

[SHAIV]

Apfelwein made from Walmart juice four weeks in primary dumped 2 oz of simcoe in last nightView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485781590.917472.jpg
It's the one on the left

 

[WhoDatDad78]

Has anyone tried racking onto berries with this? I was thinking strawberries or raspberries for half of a batch.

 

[thippe]

Has anyone tried racking onto berries with this? I was thinking strawberries or raspberries for half of a batch.

that does sound good

 

[V-Fib]

After making a batch I can from Ed's original recipe I'm pretty sure I'll be starting another 5 gal soon. I bottled it cause I didn't want to dedicate a keg to it since it's my first non-beer home brew. Now I dont know if it will even last to be fully carbed

When I started making it I was thinking about adding some cinnamon sticks to it but after tasting it I think some berries would compliment it better since it is pretty dry. I'm not sure if anyone has posted results of adding anything and I wouldn't have any idea of what to add since its pretty damn good how it is. Cheers to Ed.

 

[MarkKF]

Has anyone tried racking onto berries with this? I was thinking strawberries or raspberries for half of a batch.

No experience with this recipe but my experience with berries is that ones with little seeds like strawberries and raspberries come out more bitter than ones without like blueberries and cherries.

 

[Vrishnak]

Started another 5 gallon batch tonight. Used Great Value apple juice. Starting gravity is 1.070

 

[cpa4ny]

This is after about 2 months in the fermenter; used Notty as a yeast.

The gravity dropped to 0.095.

Really really pleasant drink; now in the keg carbing up.

 

[nsmills83]

Ok, I gave up the brewing hobby a few years ago, but I quit with a carboy of apfelwein in daughter's closet. It's been over 3 years now. Obviously the airlock has been out of liquid for most of that time. There's a little funk on the top that looks kinda like yeast. Do you think this would be any good if I bottled it. I've been craving some apfelwein! I'll upload a pic in a few. I'm having trouble from my phone

 

[jerbrew]

Try it see how it tastes.

 

[nsmills83]

from my above post

 

[brewit75]

Ok, I gave up the brewing hobby a few years ago, but I quit with a carboy of apfelwein in daughter's closet. It's been over 3 years now. Obviously the airlock has been out of liquid for most of that time. There's a little funk on the top that looks kinda like yeast. Do you think this would be any good if I bottled it. I've been craving some apfelwein! I'll upload a pic in a few. I'm having trouble from my phone

Any idea on what the ABV is? If high enough, it may be safe from nasties. I'd give it a good smell check and a thorough visual examination before drinking it. Not that it may be harmful but, it may take a LONG time to get rid of any bad taste in your mouth. Please post a pic and let me know what your next step is. Sounds interesting.

 

[SHAIV]

Might help to dose it with some campden, if you have any, before bottling

 

[SHAIV]

Oh I tried my simcoe hopped aplfelwein last night. It was a bit over carbed. I left it like 35 psi for 48 hours. Lol my glass smelled like straight simcoe. And the color lightened up and had a small amount of haze

 

[WhoDatDad78]

What's the longest (somewhat intentional) time that this has been left in primary? Mine is pretty clear and has been there for a month.

 

[benco]

One month is long enough and get off the crap in the bottom.[emoji12]

 

[SHAIV]

Some people have said they've left the primary alone for 6-7 months

 

[WhoDatDad78]

One month is long enough and get off the crap in the bottom.[emoji12]

I'm thinking of doing that, bottling half with priming sugar, half without, and pouring another batch directly onto the previous batch yeast.

 

[irishvermin]

I typically follow the original recipe and don't rack to secondary and leave in primary for 3-4 months until it's crystal clear. Well, I should say that my first batch I didn't have the patience for that, but since then I typically keep one batch in the works while I still have plenty in the keg so that there isn't any temptation to rack early.

As far as the yeast I typically have very little yeast cake at the bottom of the carboy, and for the low cost of one pack of dry yeast I don't see the value in the effort to reuse. Also have yet to experience any off flavors by leaving in primary for too long.

Of course, to each their own, but for me the beauty of this apfelwein is it's "set it and forget it" simplicity with consistently great results despite a remarkably low amount of effort. It feels like "cheating" to a certain degree, but who cares, it tastes good.

Thanks Ed!

 

[SHAIV]

You could pour juice onto a yeast cake from the last batch but then you'd get all the dead yeast and everything in there. The correct way to harvest and reuse yeast is to put water or something with sugar in on top of the yeast cake and let it go into suspension then rack it off the dead yeast and stuff.
Also I'm gonna try to empty my 5 gallon keg in two weeks. I'll probably bottle a bunch of it cuz I can't drink more than 4 glasses a night I'm typing this now after 4 glasses of my simcoe dry hopped version and I'm done lol

 

[lukie]

Do you guys degas? I'm thinking of priming it. In this case, it doesn't make sense to degas right. What's the consensus on this - is it better to make it as a wine or does it taste better with carbonation?

P.S. I made it in my FastFerment (conical fermenter) and sampled it from the lower yeast collecting bulb and aprt from the cloudy appearance I quite like it - very dry like OP says, nice cidery taste, slight carbonation which suits it just fine, plus very acidic and astringent (but not rough) so that even any tiny segment of parched lips stings slightly, which is a tad annoying. For the record I went cheap and used Great Value apple juice (from concentrate), Lalvin ec-1118 yeast and a bit over the 2lbs dextrose (maybe 150 grams more) to bring in the OG up to 13.5 Brix. Right now my Brix reads at about 4.5. According to calculators it's clocking in at about 7%abv and it tastes that way. Its a nice, dry, crips, acidic and astringent apple taste. Would prefer a bit more depth/complexity, but it's still good and not boring. Am concerned that making it flat would make it boring. Want to bottle this soon to make room in my Fastferment - Should I add more dextrose at bottling?

 

[SHAIV]

Degas? Like prime it then let the c02 out? Sounds counterproductive to me. Though I did actually just learn that c02 absorbed into a liquid produces carbonic acid. So if it's too acidic when flat then maybe carbonating it won't be what you would like

 

[JB509]

First off let me say this recipe and thread has been really informative. I read the entire thing. I live a block away from TreeTop and can get juice in bulk for cost. I have gathered all the supplies needed but have a few questions.

1- Can I use 3 lbs of sugar per 5 gallons ?

2- Can I use Brun Leger Soft Candi Sugar or equivalent in place of brown sugar ?

Thanks in advance

Best regards,
JB

 

[SHAIV]

1- Can I use 3 lbs of sugar per 5 gallons ?



2- Can I use Brun Leger Soft Candi Sugar or equivalent in place of brown sugar ? JB

Yes and yes, I've made the original, a brown sugar batch, a batch with simcoe dry hops. I've been messing around with different versions but I do say the brown sugar was drinkable but it was my least favorite one

 

[JB509]

Yes and yes, I've made the original, a brown sugar batch, a batch with simcoe dry hops. I've been messing around with different versions but I do say the brown sugar was drinkable but it was my least favorite one

Thanks for the input. I'm gonna be getting this project started next weekend. I will keep updating on my progress and experiences along the way.

 

[Lukass]

First off let me say this recipe and thread has been really informative. I read the entire thing. I live a block away from TreeTop and can get juice in bulk for cost. I have gathered all the supplies needed but have a few questions.

1- Can I use 3 lbs of sugar per 5 gallons ?

2- Can I use Brun Leger Soft Candi Sugar or equivalent in place of brown sugar ?

Thanks in advance

Best regards,
JB

I used 3 lbs of corn sugar on my last batch. It's sitting somewhere around 10.5% abv. It's delicious IMO, so yes you can definitely do 3 lbs no problem!

 

[thippe]

This is after about 2 months in the fermenter; used Notty as a yeast.

The gravity dropped to 0.095.

Really really pleasant drink; now in the keg carbing up.

Nottingham ale yeast got you to 0.095 ? I didnt think it went down that far

 

[thippe]

Oh I tried my simcoe hopped aplfelwein last night. It was a bit over carbed. I left it like 35 psi for 48 hours. Lol my glass smelled like straight simcoe. And the color lightened up and had a small amount of haze

did you like it with the simcoe? i'm thinking about dry hopping a batch but havn't decided on hop variety and dose strength.

 

[Maylar]

Nottingham ale yeast got you to 0.095 ? I didnt think it went down that far

He probably means 0.995, and yes I've had Notty take 1.050 cider that low.

 

[cpa4ny]

He probably means 0.995, and yes I've had Notty take 1.050 cider that low.

You are absolutely right - my typo

To get it past 1.000, I think brett kicked in (got the pelicle on top); not what was planned, but makes for a delicious drink nevertheless

 

[SHAIV]

Nottingham ale yeast got you to 0.095 ? I didnt think it went down that far

Nothing different really about ale yeast that makes something finish dryer or sweeter. It's all about the unfermentable sugars that makes beer finish sweeter. Although some recipes will get different fg from different yeast strains

 

[SHAIV]

did you like it with the simcoe? i'm thinking about dry hopping a batch but havn't decided on hop variety and dose strength.

Yes I do like it especially now that I got the carbonation pretty close. it's very fruity and a little hazy. I recommend 2 oz in 5 gallons I dry hopped at room temp for like 6 days then cold crashed for about 3 days. I gently rocked the carboy every couple days to try to get the hops to sink. I love the aroma! It's great! I want to try citra next. I have a 1 gallon cider I made with just whitehouse "fresh pressed" juice no sugar or anything and used half the s04 yeast pack from a one gallon all citra IPA I made( which smelled amazing!) once that one gallon stops fermenting I'll probably get an oz and rack it onto it. Anyway I didn't have time to rack the apfelwein to secondary so I just dumped the hops in primary after it fermented for 4 weeks. Turned out great my wife said it's the best non beer thing I've made haha. I'm a hop head though my wife is not. I've also done a cascade cider before without carbonation. It was good too I used about half oz for a gallon

 

[shetc]

Ok, so my 4 week wait is over. How should I package it? In bottles, no carbonation? In bottles, with carbonation? Keg and carb it?

 

[SHAIV]

Ok, so my 4 week wait is over. How should I package it? In bottles, no carbonation? In bottles, with carbonation? Keg and carb it?

It's up to you. The guy that started this thread kegs it. I've kegged all mine. Then I bottled some from the keg to age

 

[Vrishnak]

Bottled mine still. Family loves it.