Man, I love Apfelwein

[bembel]

GENERAL YEAST DEFECTION QUESTION!!!!

3 days ago I bought a few 1 gallon glass jugs to make small test batches with, experiment if you will. I asked the local brew nerd (as an aside, I gotta say, If you combine comic con and home brew you make D&D look like varsity football!) at the HBS about the yeast packets, since the recipes on this thread mostly call for 5 grams of yeast for 5 gallons of juice. I assumed I would use 1 gram for a gallon, and wanted to know how long I could keep an open packet of yeast. I was told that the packet would get contaminated, and to dump the whole 5 grams in, since it 'could not hurt' and the packet would not store well once opened, and at 89 cents, get over it. Just use the whole thing, in one gallon. You cant have too much yeast, at least, not at that level.......

OK

I did that

using EC-1118 (but no dextrose added) to a gallon of Motts

day 1-2, Bubbles off the charts, thought I was watching the Wire.
day 3, today, NOTHING, and 1/8th of an inch of sediment at the bottom?

can it be that the extra yeast ate all the sugar that fast?

My 5 gallon dextrose juiced batch from last Sat is still ripping wind with no sediment yet, what is going on?

can you add too MUCH yeast to a batch?


Thanks and I apologize if this was answered at some point 300 pages ago in this thread!

But will extra packets of yeast speed up the fermentation process?????

I mean, biologically, once the little buggers are activated, they eat and reproduce, but if they are already there in COPIOUS numbers, if they metabolize FASTER than they reproduce, then wouldn't having more yeast to start with speed up the overall metabolic fermentation? Since in order to eat ALL the sugar you need a certain number of bacteria, but if you start out closer to that number, wont the process take less time?

any bio geeks out there?



Danke Schnitzel

W.

 

[Hegh]

GENERAL YEAST DEFECTION QUESTION!!!! ...

As far as I know, and I'm no expert, the difference comes from flavors created by the yeast. In beer, this can be a big thing; as the yeast reproduce, they produce different flavors than when they are simply metabolizing the sugar.

But when you want a clean product, especially something like aged wine, where the yeast do not generally impart much flavor, the faster fermentation with significantly less reproduction may even be desirable.

I'd still age it for a while, though.

 

[brpruett]

Commercial producers in Germany lay great value on cool fermentation, which usually means a longer fermentation. Adding a lot of yeast per se is not a bad thing as I understand it. Most commercial ops make sure that they add a heavy dose at the outset (they also add a fair amount of YAN) so that the yeast doesn't have to struggle to reproduce. Struggling yeast produce off-flavors just as yeast which reproduce too quickly will.

Bottom line - the most important thing is that your yeast have a nice cool, healthy environment in which to do their thang. Having too much yeast is generally not a problem.

With 1-gallon jugs I would just distribute a single pack between 4 or 5. If you couldn't feed them all at the same time, then fold over the foil packaging to seal off the rest in the package, put it in a zip lock and stick it in the fridge until needed. The risk of contamination is low and the worst case is that you would ruin a gallon or two should something untoward happen.

BTW Bembel, you can probably reuse that yeast cake in your container. Once you rack off the aepfelwein you simply add fresh, pasteurized juice on top of the sediment layer. I am currently fermenting another test batch on the lees of the previous batch (6.5G). I am looking to see if there is a benefit taste-wise to reusing the cake. I am aware that I run the risk of contamination, but I see that risk as small and I am meticulous in keeping my equipment sanitary. If I am unable to taste any improvement from reusing the cake then I will abandon that procedure. Future experiments include using fresh unpasteurized juice and letting the natural yeasts do the work (with the help of YAN). If that experiment produces superior Stoeffche then I will harvest and propogate those yeasts for my own private recipe. I've made some outstanding Syrah using that approach (tasted like Penfold's Grange!) and I am curious to see how it would work with apple juice. Luckily I have some outbuildings to store the stuff here at the ranch so that I don't have to worry about SWMBO reacting to H2S (rhino flatulence) permeating the house.

 

[skx]

So the 3 gal batch I have had going for over a month now seems done. It cleared up very nicely. Strange thing is that when a took a gravity reading(1.005) the sample was kinda fizzy. Anybody else get that?

 

[brpruett]

At 1.005 I do not think fermentation is done, so that's part of it. The other is that you will have some CO2 captured from the fermentation process. BTW, when you take a gravity reading in bubbly stuff you need to stir out the gas or you will get a false reading...which I suspect is also part of your situation.

 

[Hegh]

So the 3 gal batch I have had going for over a month now seems done. It cleared up very nicely. Strange thing is that when a took a gravity reading(1.005) the sample was kinda fizzy. Anybody else get that?

Fizzyness is very normal. As brpruett said, stir it out to get a good reading, but it's kind of nice to leave it in (if you're not using wine bottles) for your drinkers.

 

[MetallHed]

i had to spin the hydrometer a ton of times to get all of the bubbles to come out so I could get an accurate reading, I went from 1.008 to 1.00, so make sure you do that.

 

[skx]

i'll have to take another sample so i can get the bubbles out.

The sample i did tasted pretty good, especially after i chilled it.

Oh, btw, i was using Wyeast 4184- sweet mead, so that would affect FG i imagine.

 

[bembel]

Just got back from Trader Joes

They sell 1/2 gallon Organic, unfiltered, unsweetened, unadulterated applejuice for $3.29, and also have other cool 100% organic juice varieties, with pear and blueberry

Pitched 1 gallon of the unfiltered organic apple on Sat, will pitch the Blueberry-Apple-Pear as soon as I free up another gallon jug

Also, I am fermenting at 77-78 degrees F, will this be too hot for longer term aging once the initial 3 weeks is past? I wanted to bottle and age some as well to see the difference

 

[bembel]

Other than ebbelwoi, my next favorite beverage from the Sausage Land is KristalWeizen, which is near impossible to find even in bottles in a city the size of Boston. Kristalweizen is the filtered, clear version of Heffe Weizen, and has a much cleaner, more refreshing flavor IMO. It is also the ONLY Weissbier that is served with a slice of lemon ( gemuse )

If you served a Bavarian (or any German, for that matter) a Heffeweisse with Lemon you would end up wearing the beer! It is unholy!

So, back to topic

Do any of you German Applewine Advocates on this thread have any experience making Filtered Weizen Beer, I sure would like to make some Kristal......

 

[brpruett]

Bembel:
You may wish to post this question as a new thread. BTW: I recall having been served a Sommerweizen with lemon many times in Bavaria. I am not a fan of fruit in beer. It is funny that the Germans call it 'gemuese' (vegetable).

Out of Ebbelwoi for the moment, but I have 19 gallons coming on line in 2 weeks!

Tschuess!

 

[bigmauler]

I recently opened a bottle of apfelwein I started back in april. I fermented just 1 gallon of : "Solana Gold Organic apple juice - Sonoma county Gravenstein" that I purchased while on a trip to Spokane. I bought it at some store that reminded me of wholefoods. This was by far the most interesting apfelwein I have had to date. I've tried a lot of mixing juices and I must say that this the best stuff I've made in 2 years of brewing. I really enjoy the tartness.

 

[bembel]

BP,

you had mentioned that you were going to re-use the yeast 'cake' in your next batch, does one have to dry it out first/ how do you re-sterilize everything? Can you explain the process? I'd like to try it as well

Also, If I bottle some to get carbonation, are the priming dextrose tablets OK to use vs mixing the whole batch with more sugar in another carboy (I only have 2 of them )

I assume there is still active yeast in the clear solution right?, otherwise the priming sugar would remain sugar and not C02? Do I need to get a little sediment into each bottle?

Finally, how long after bottling with primer does one need to wait for the final fermentation to occur, and will this add a bit to the alcohol content?

Thanks for your help!

Bembel!

 

[Hegh]

BP,

you had mentioned that you were going to re-use the yeast 'cake' in your next batch, does one have to dry it out first/ how do you re-sterilize everything? Can you explain the process? I'd like to try it as well

Also, If I bottle some to get carbonation, are the priming dextrose tablets OK to use vs mixing the whole batch with more sugar in another carboy (I only have 2 of them )

I assume there is still active yeast in the clear solution right?, otherwise the priming sugar would remain sugar and not C02? Do I need to get a little sediment into each bottle?

Finally, how long after bottling with primer does one need to wait for the final fermentation to occur, and will this add a bit to the alcohol content?

Thanks for your help!

Bembel!

To re-use the yeast cake, just pour your new juice on top of it. But don't do this too many times, as the risk of infection increases each time and a packet of yeast is probably less than $1.

As for the rest of your questions, it sounds like you need to read How to Brew, especially chapter 11.

 

[bembel]

To re-use the yeast cake, just pour your new juice on top of it. But don't do this too many times, as the risk of infection increases each time and a packet of yeast is probably less than $1.

As for the rest of your questions, it sounds like you need to read How to Brew, especially chapter 11.

Thank you!

 

[rowingbrewer]

I have ten gallons of edworts apflewien that will have been fermenting for four weeks on Saturday. I am going to keg five in a corny one in my Taylor freezer syrup tank and bottle four. Should I use corn sugar or brown sugar for priming the bottles?

 

[milldoggy]

Just did my first 10 gallons, going to be hard to wait for it. I used Montrachet in one and T-58 in the other. Had it laying around and love it it my wheats, wonder how it will taste in this.

 

[ben2010]

Hey everyone - I was fascinated at the popularity of this apfelwein, so I had to give it a try. Pitched my yeast a couple of hours ago, she is going to be a long wait. I have yet to invest in a kegging system, and was wondering what peoples opinion is on the best way to age apfelwein. Should I rack to a secondary carboy and age it there, or bottle it and let it age in bottles (as of now I dont plan on priming them, going to leave it un-carbonated). Any thoughts on this?

Cheers.

 

[Hegh]

Hey everyone - I was fascinated at the popularity of this apfelwein, so I had to give it a try. Pitched my yeast a couple of hours ago, she is going to be a long wait. I have yet to invest in a kegging system, and was wondering what peoples opinion is on the best way to age apfelwein. Should I rack to a secondary carboy and age it there, or bottle it and let it age in bottles (as of now I dont plan on priming them, going to leave it un-carbonated). Any thoughts on this?

Cheers.

If you can stand it, leave it in primary for 6 months, then bottle. When bottling in wine bottles, make sure to de-gas (stir for a few minutes with something like a sanitized bottle brush to knock the CO2 out of solution). I lost 2 18-month old 1.5L bottles because I didn't know to do that and they popped their corks.

 

[mikeshep]

when is the best time to sweeten my hard cider? what is the purpose of the 2lbs of corn sugar in your recipe? I have two huge apple trees in my back yard so I am making cider from fresh crushed apples i put the juice in a bucket with tight lid and ad yeast what can i do better.

 

[frazier]

Using home-grown apples sounds great.

What can you do better?

1. Sterilize the batch with campden tablets, to suppress wild yeast and bacteria. Unless you are trying to make some nasty-tasting hootch.

2. Follow the recipe. The added sugar gives the yeast something to thrive on, boosting alcohol towards wine territory (as opposed to simply hard cider).

3. Your "bucket with a tight lid" needs an airlock.

 

[tim87tr]

I just checked gravity at 2.5 weeks, it is at .995 (OG=1.062), clear and tastes great! I like dry flavor especially, like merlot and dry sake. I was surprised it was already clear and tasted so good, very smooth. I used Indian Summer premium apple juice from Walmart, pasteurized and ascorbic acid (vitamin C), so it must be good stuff to clear early and taste so good. I used the recipe given and put it in my buddies basement at 70 degrees, but maybe lower temp on the concrete floor.

I plan to leave it in the primary 2 or 3 months, and then may want to bottle some un-carbonated in wine bottles and carb the remainder. I'm going to start another batch soon, maybe some other fruit juice with the apple, and plan to leave it in the primary and bottles longer.

 

[bembel]

FYI

you can get some HYSTERICAL Apple Wine t-shirts from this website, personally, the iGude is my favorite, in Hessische, instead of saying Hallo or Guten Morgen, you say Ei Gude, so iGude, a play on all the apple marketing

http://www.kaufrauscher.de/maenner-klamodde

Cheers

 

[bembel]

Bottled my first 5 gallon batch, started on the 24th of July, so thats just over 2 weeks

Have another 15 gallons on the way!

the temp is a constant 77 degrees, so things went much faster than expected using 1118

the flavor is EXACTLY like the ebbelwoi I was weaned on in Frankfurt, every night at Adolf Wagners, I was so happy I upgraded my membership!

Many thanks to all those who made this happy moment possible with all their posts!

Here is the label I will be using!

 

[bembel]

Pitched another 5 gallons yesterday on the leftover yeast from the last batch, but after 24 hours there is no visible fermentation going, when normally I see action withing 6 hours?

Also, the wine from this batch (came from the yeast that is not working) is not fermenting its priming solution at all, even though it has been 3 days?

when you reuse a yeast cake, does it take much longer?

Should I just add another package of fresh yeast to it?

thanks

 

[Recluse]

I've never done it, but most people report that pitching on a previous cake starts as fast or faster than when pitching on a new packet. Did you do anything to the batch besides just rack off the liquid?



I wouldn't use the slow priming as an indicator, my batches were never satisfactorily primed until at LEAST 2 weeks in the bottle, usually optimum by 3-4.

 

[SlipknotMcGee]

Pitched another 5 gallons yesterday on the leftover yeast from the last batch, but after 24 hours there is no visible fermentation going, when normally I see action withing 6 hours?

Many many pages ago, Ed tried to repitch onto a leftover cake and found that it went slower. Can't hurt to add another packet of yeast though. Did you aerate well? How long was the previous batch sitting on that yeast?

How are you measuring how much the bottled product has used its priming solution?

 

[bembel]

Many many pages ago, Ed tried to repitch onto a leftover cake and found that it went slower. Can't hurt to add another packet of yeast though. Did you aerate well? How long was the previous batch sitting on that yeast?

How are you measuring how much the bottled product has used its priming solution?

The previous batch had been sitting for about 18 days, I had bottled the day before and then put the airlock back on, I also blew some sanitizing foam into the carboy before refilling it, ( just the foam, no liquid) and there was a ton of yeast at the bottom so the foam probably didn't kill ALL of it? I just like to have that foam rise up with the liquid to push out any bad stuff?

I measure the amount of primer fermentation based on 1, bubbles and 2, sediment on the bottom of the bottles, the bottles are crystal clear with no bubbles yet nor sedimentation?

 

[bembel]

"Blessed are the cheese makers!"

Full article here http://www.helium.com/items/1725913-how-to-cook-german-speciality-handkaes


Take some milk and leave it for 12 hours in a room temperature, then skim the cream off. Leave the skimmed milk for another 24 hours, and then put it in a linen bag or cloth to squeeze out buttermilk.

Put a cloth with clabber in a sieve, cover it with a flat plate and put a stone or any other heavy thing on top for pressing. It helps the cheese to dry well. Leave it under the weight for 6 hours.

Mix the cheese with salt (according your taste) and caraway seeds (if you like it), form small balls by your hands and allow them to dry openly for another 6 hours. Then lay cheese balls in a high earthenware pot, layer by layer, cover it with a clean cloth and leave for 3-4 weeks in a cool place to mature. During this time you should periodically take them out, wash mould away, using buttermilk, and lay cheese in a pot again.

* How can you serve Handkaes

About 3-4 hours before to serve up the Handkaese, divide cheese balls in half or into four pieces according a size.

Sea salt, freshly ground black pepper, cider vinegar and olive oil mix together and stir well to dissolve salt fully. Quantify according your taste.

Chop a big white onion into small pieces and add to the marinade, mix it thoroughly.

Put Handkaes in a pot or a bowl, pour the marinade. Cover it and leave until serving to allow the marinade soaking Handkaes well and enhancing the flavor.

 

[CalmYourself]

I made a batch of this on the 7th of November 2009. The last three bottles (finished at the start of this month) were extremely acidic. Rest of the batch was fine.

What could have caused that?