HopWolf
Well-Known Member
I've never thought of dry hopping cider before, may have to try this
Man, I love Apfelwein
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Started 5 gallons on 4/6/16 and followed the exact recipe of the original post. I'd like to serve this on 11/6/16. That would be 7 months from brew to serve. I'm going to bottle with 5 oz of dextrose. When should I bottle? I'm thinking of maybe the first week of October which would be 6 months in primary and 1 month in the bottle. Sound good? Any suggestions?
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you serve to benefit more from longer bottle conditioning than bulk aging. I would love to hear someone else's thoughts on this or tell me that I am wrong, but that is my understanding...
HopWolf
Well-Known Member
Mine was in Primary for three weeks, bottled with 4oz of dextrose and pasteurized 10 days later, wish I had gone longer for a bit more carbonation.
Cider drinkers like it and I can drink it but I'm curious as to what flavor changes occur with a longer primary time? Mine fermented out to .990 and I was worried about bottle bombs. Does 6 months in the carboy like @brewit75 add that much more in the flavor profile and would pasteurizing still be necessary for bottling?
Cider drinkers like it and I can drink it but I'm curious as to what flavor changes occur with a longer primary time? Mine fermented out to .990 and I was worried about bottle bombs. Does 6 months in the carboy like @brewit75 add that much more in the flavor profile and would pasteurizing still be necessary for bottling?
Pasteurization is only necessary if sweetening w sugar is my understanding. You could sweeten with lactose and omit the pasteurization step. Personally I like mine dry, and have been keeping a little bit of simple syrup on hand if anybody wants the sweet version (also have been doing this with my ginger beer).
And as I said above (and nobody else has chimed in regarding) I think you benefit more from longer bottle conditioning than from longer bulk aging but I really don't know if there is any benefit to a longer primary or not. I imagine winemakers would be able to answer this question better than a brewer, since we rely on shorter fermentations most of the time anyway...
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Thanks. I remember reading that after primary ferment, apple juice goes through a malolactic change and the acids that cause bitterness go away. I'm hoping not to disturb this from happening since I'm well aware of how bitter a young apple wine can be. I'm just not sure if it will happen either way.
Maybe I'll just split the difference. Leave it in primary until July (3 months) bottle mid July and consume after bottle conditioning for 4 months.
Maybe I'll just split the difference. Leave it in primary until July (3 months) bottle mid July and consume after bottle conditioning for 4 months.
Here's what I was quoting in my post above about malolactic change. It starts with racking to secondary.
After primary ferment, transfer to secondary:
" Now let the cider flow into the secondary jug, but be very careful not to suck up any of the sediment lees in the bottom of the primary jug. Slowly move the tube toward the lees, but watch the hose to make sure it does not start to get cloudy. Don't get greedy here! You will have to abandon a bit of cider if you don't want the whole batch to have a yeast taste and cloudy haze. Leave the last half inch (1.25cm) above the lees, so that you make sure not to suck any yuck into the tube.
Step 3.*Pour a bit in a glass and give it a taste. Of course with all of this work you are going to want to taste some of your fabulous brew. And boy will you likely be disappointed!
Cider at this stage (especially if you have let it ferment all the way) is pretty bitter and harsh. Try some if you like, but remember it gets better from here.
Step 4.*Re-sterilize the*stopper*and*airlock*and put them back on top of the jug. It is time to let our cider sit again. This is officially "secondary fermentation," but you should see very little (if any) bubbling action. I like to let the cider rest at least 30 days, but you can let it "mellow" here in secondary for 2 months. When it is resting in secondary or tertiary, don't shake, move or stir it during this time! About a week before you plan to bottle, move your brew up on the shelf or counter where you plan on racking it into the bottles so you don't shake up the sediment.
HOT TIP:*Cider will mellow over time (like wine) and the taste will become smoother with less harsh notes. If you can stand to wait, it will develop some nice flavor, and will continue to clear as even more sediment settles to the bottom. If you really would like clear, crisp, mellow cider (or if you are making a big batch and want it all to be fantastic) I recommend a third racking (called: tertiary rack). If you can let it rest in tertiary for 3-6 months--and many of the sharp acids will mellow out and increase the body of your brew. For you chemistry buffs out there, this long rest allows the "sharp" malic acids convert to "buttery smooth" lactic acid during malolactic fermentation. Read more specifics on brew tips in Ben Watson's*book, Cider, Hard and Sweet). If you are going to let it age (I always do) you will want to give it that third rack. Leaving it in secondary too long can make it taste yeasty--so rack it into a clean jug if you are going to age more than 8 weeks. Time allows the processes of malolactic fermentation to kick in, and breaks down the harsher "vingary" taste sometimes found in young brew. But young brew is tasty too, so it is your call. If this is not your first batch, or you are experimenting with multiple jugs, do rack one jug thrice and set it back to age for a bit--and taste the difference!
After primary ferment, transfer to secondary:
" Now let the cider flow into the secondary jug, but be very careful not to suck up any of the sediment lees in the bottom of the primary jug. Slowly move the tube toward the lees, but watch the hose to make sure it does not start to get cloudy. Don't get greedy here! You will have to abandon a bit of cider if you don't want the whole batch to have a yeast taste and cloudy haze. Leave the last half inch (1.25cm) above the lees, so that you make sure not to suck any yuck into the tube.
Step 3.*Pour a bit in a glass and give it a taste. Of course with all of this work you are going to want to taste some of your fabulous brew. And boy will you likely be disappointed!
Cider at this stage (especially if you have let it ferment all the way) is pretty bitter and harsh. Try some if you like, but remember it gets better from here.
Step 4.*Re-sterilize the*stopper*and*airlock*and put them back on top of the jug. It is time to let our cider sit again. This is officially "secondary fermentation," but you should see very little (if any) bubbling action. I like to let the cider rest at least 30 days, but you can let it "mellow" here in secondary for 2 months. When it is resting in secondary or tertiary, don't shake, move or stir it during this time! About a week before you plan to bottle, move your brew up on the shelf or counter where you plan on racking it into the bottles so you don't shake up the sediment.
HOT TIP:*Cider will mellow over time (like wine) and the taste will become smoother with less harsh notes. If you can stand to wait, it will develop some nice flavor, and will continue to clear as even more sediment settles to the bottom. If you really would like clear, crisp, mellow cider (or if you are making a big batch and want it all to be fantastic) I recommend a third racking (called: tertiary rack). If you can let it rest in tertiary for 3-6 months--and many of the sharp acids will mellow out and increase the body of your brew. For you chemistry buffs out there, this long rest allows the "sharp" malic acids convert to "buttery smooth" lactic acid during malolactic fermentation. Read more specifics on brew tips in Ben Watson's*book, Cider, Hard and Sweet). If you are going to let it age (I always do) you will want to give it that third rack. Leaving it in secondary too long can make it taste yeasty--so rack it into a clean jug if you are going to age more than 8 weeks. Time allows the processes of malolactic fermentation to kick in, and breaks down the harsher "vingary" taste sometimes found in young brew. But young brew is tasty too, so it is your call. If this is not your first batch, or you are experimenting with multiple jugs, do rack one jug thrice and set it back to age for a bit--and taste the difference!
louie0202
Well-Known Member
Have some bottles that are 3 years old, will try tonight.
HopWolf
Well-Known Member
That would be great but my Daughter is Lactose/Gluten intolerant so...
What about a can of frozen juice? Or is that the same as sugar.
The stove top pasteurization wasn't difficult but would that stop or halt any bottle aging effects? I would assume that refrigeration halts or slows dramatically any aging effect but I don't have the cooler space for everything.
Goofynewfie
Well-Known Member
You wont be disappointed. I found a 2 yr old bottle and it ages very well
There's a lot of talk on backsweetening here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=305530 ...I know some people use artificial sweeteners, but I'd rather use something my body can process naturally rather than something artificial that stays in my system 4x longer, but that's just me...
Hopefully you can find something that works here. Just make sure you pay attention to how much people are adding to what volume of liquid, because some sweeteners are **dramatically** stronger than others.
This is pretty interesting info. Sounds like maybe my apfelweins could benefit from some additional bulk aging/transfers. Is there any reason to believe that this transformation wouldn't occur anyway just from racking off of the yeast/haze and just bottling/aging that way? It seems like all the transfers and additional air exposure would risk introduction/culturing of spoilage bacteria. [Sorry, lazy here, so any step I can skip is preferable]
I'm curious what you're referring to here. Do you have a source? I can't find any article that states something similar to this, "4x longer," fact.
Whoa yeah sorry that figure was hyperbole and way incorrect. I was thinking of natural sugars (cane sugar, maple syrup) vs refined sugar just being better for you. That was an incorrect statement so I apologize for that. Personally I prefer to avoid artificial sweeteners, but that may be the route you want to go if you can't use lactose. You may also want to look at stevia and xylitol. I don't *believe* those are fermentable but I would definitely double check first...
I'm bottle priming the entire 5 gallons. Figure I'll use 5oz of dextros to the whole batch for carbobation. I'm doing half dry (no xylitol) and the remaining half with xylitol mixed in. It's the only nonfermtable sweetener that doesn't taste "weird" when drinking.
Awesome! Please check back in with tasting notes after the bottles have conditioned a little bit... I have always wanted to do this myself (backsweeten half a batch for comparison) with the cider but have never gone to the hassle. I may give xylitol a shot.
I think it's going through malolactic fermentation as we speak. I started this batch on 4/6/16 and if fermented very slow. The temps were 62-65 degrees the entire time. It fermented strong for about 3 weeks and then slowed way down.
From May 1st through May 10th not a single sign of any action. So I thought it was finished. It even started to clear.
But, in the last 4 days, I see very tiny bubbles running up the side of the glass carboy. They are extremely small and there are tons of them. Much smaller than the bubbles that were produced during the first few weeks. I'm thinking (and hoping) this is malolactic conversion of the acids. Temps for the last few days have been 70-72 and the cider has become slightly cloudy again. I'll check it again in a few weeks and see if it clears.
Here's a few pics. Had to shine a flashlight on it to get the bubbles to show up. The other pic is a 1 gallon batch that I just opened and pitch montrachet directly into. No sugar added. I racked that last week and threw a cinnamon stick in. It's got a very thin layer of lees built up in 7 days but haven't seen any sign of malolactic activity. It just got crystal clear and stayed that way. Not sure what I'm going to do with it in terms of bottling. Still, carbed, dry, etc.
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Personally I like to carb mine and leave it dry. I keep simple sugar on hand if anyone wants it sweetened.
[Side note] I did recently get some lactose and am thinking about sweetening a ginger beer with that since people seem to have conflicting opinions on how it affects body/flavor so figured I would just decide for myself...
Well I just Bottled my Apfelwein tonight. It was my first ever wine and while there have most certainly been learning points I'm happy with how it came out.
Here is the log:
I think some additives would have been good, something to bring out the some more tartness and some oak.
I'll start another one soon, though I really want to use apple and black current juice.
Here is the log:
I think some additives would have been good, something to bring out the some more tartness and some oak.
I'll start another one soon, though I really want to use apple and black current juice.
Jiffster
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I'll be kegging my first batch of the original recipe in about 2 weeks. What are folks finding to be a good carbonation volume for this?
Also, can I force carb this just like beer? I.e. 40 psi for 36 hours and then dial down to say 8?
Also, can I force carb this just like beer? I.e. 40 psi for 36 hours and then dial down to say 8?
jimmerz
Well-Known Member
I used carbonation tablets when I bottled. It was in my primary for a month now it's been bottled for almost 2 weeks. I'll let you know how my carbonation turns out when I crack open a bottle. I have another batch in my primary, I used a peach juice (1/2 gallon) with my apple juice. Once again I used light brown sugar. One of these times I'll use corn sugar or whatever the original recipe calls for? 1st batch was an ale yeast, this one is Montrachet.
I usually do mine 2.4~3.2. I'm only familiar with using priming sugar, so I don't really have an answer to the second question, though I don't see why it would be different.
fogdogwine
Member
My favorite batch yet!! Apple Jack Wine!
Crab apples soaked with Jack Daniel wood chips! Very Smooth, Warm, and Sweet!
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1463613447.903575.jpg
Crab apples soaked with Jack Daniel wood chips! Very Smooth, Warm, and Sweet!
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1463613447.903575.jpg
fogdogwine
Member
What is it?
It's crab apples fermented with JD wood chips... lol
We call it applejack!
It's wine, but you have taste the oak flavor!
It took me nearly 1 year to to get a good clear wine.. I was surprised by how much sediment it made.
Two problems...
One, it took almost 2 gallons of recipe to make 2-3 bottles of wine..
Two, I over sweetened it, so it fermented well, but still to sweet!!
It's crab apples fermented with JD wood chips... lol
We call it applejack!
It's wine, but you have taste the oak flavor!
It took me nearly 1 year to to get a good clear wine.. I was surprised by how much sediment it made.
Two problems...
One, it took almost 2 gallons of recipe to make 2-3 bottles of wine..
Two, I over sweetened it, so it fermented well, but still to sweet!!
Applejack is freeze concentrated. Did you do that, or are you just calling it applejack because of the JD chips?
Kind of a crotchety response there... poster can call his booze whatever he wants... clearly it is not freeze distilled bc he did not mention this process.
On the freeze distillation note though, I have been considering giving that a shot this winter. Should be fun.
