Malt Conditioning... WOW it rocks!

[beerocd]

Do you do anything special at the end of milling, like maybe running through some unconditioned malt to dry out the rollers? Without actually having tried this yet, I would be concerned about water on the rollers. Whadday think?

-OCD

 

[babalu87]

Do you do anything special at the end of milling, like maybe running through some unconditioned malt to dry out the rollers? Without actually having tried this yet, I would be concerned about water on the rollers. Whadday think?

-OCD

I dont do anything to my rollers but run grain through.

Your adding VERY little water , only enough to toughen up the husks.
Kai explained it really well at his house

you want the husks to feel leathery

2-3 oz of water sprayed with a hand held sprayer (bottle type) per 10 lbs of grain is a good place to start.
Best part is you can do this the night before and the grains are ready to crush in the AM

 

[Bobby_M]

Hey Pol,

What is your reasoning behind having/wanting such high efficiency? It seems to me that tannins aside, you are getting more than just sugar out the higher the efficiency. Does your beer taste any different than 70-80%? You are a bit far away for a sample and critique, so I have to just go from what you say. Just interested.

It's not really about efficiency but rather having a really good crush without shredding the hell out of the husks. In fact, I'd argue there's less of a chance of tanins because the husks are more intact.

 

[The Pol]

Hey Pol,

What is your reasoning behind having/wanting such high efficiency? It seems to me that tannins aside, you are getting more than just sugar out the higher the efficiency. Does your beer taste any different than 70-80%? You are a bit far away for a sample and critique, so I have to just go from what you say. Just interested.

Malt conditioning is not a way to increase eff., and the only eff. that a crush will increase is converison eff, and mine is already nearly 100%.

Malt conditioning is ONLY used to keep the husks intact, and since my E-HERMS lives and breathes based on having a nice free flowing grain bed, it fits.

Go back and read what I have written, and you will see that I am actually in the process of reducing my eff. by at least 8%.

There is a difference between conversion eff. and lauter eff. My conversion eff. is 97%, so even if my lauter eff. is only 80%, I am still getting 80% eff.

A guy only converting 70% of his sugars in the mash will lauter 90% eff. and get 63%? He is oversparging and I am not... so his tannin extraction is much worse.

Eff. to the kettle means nothing in terms of tannin extraction, period. If I convert 100% of my mash and leave 20% behind in the grain, I am still at 80% eff. That is A LOT left in the grain.

If you convert 80% of your sugars and lauter 90% efficiently, you are getting 72% eff. to the kettle and sparging MUCH more than I am. So who has more tannin extraction?

Again, I am not doing this to increase eff, read the thread and you will see where this is stated. The purpose of malt conditioning is to help my grain bed run free. I do strive to have excellent conversion eff, because that allows me to sparge much less, creating better wort in the end. It is really simple.

It is really easy to reduce your lauter eff. and I am in the process of doing just this, as this is the ONLY place in the process where extracting tannins takes place. Tannin extraction is not tied at all to eff. but it IS tied directly to pH and therefore your sparge volume. You can have poor eff. to the kettle and easily oversparge. I am sparging with 3 gallons to reach 7.8 in my kettle... I sparge very little

Lets say you mash with 1.25qt/lb and sparge to reach your boil volume. Say you need 7.8 gallons in the kettle, you are only getting 2.125 (on a 10lb grain bill) from the mash, you are sparging with 5.675 gallons?? What? And then you claim that since you have 70% eff. that your beer is better than mine because I get 80%? But I am sparging HALF as much as you...

Again, tannin extraction has NOTHING to do with eff. to the kettle.(regardless of what anyone wants to say) Sparge temp, volume, husk condition and pH are the only things. Since I sparge less than anyone I personally know, I laugh when I hear that my wort is of lesser quality than thiers just because they have 65-70% eff. Obviously they dont understand mashing or sparging, they are making oatmeal and hoping it turns out OK

And as BobbyM said, there is much LESS tannin extraction because the husks are literally WHOLE.

 

[The Pol]

Do you do anything special at the end of milling, like maybe running through some unconditioned malt to dry out the rollers? Without actually having tried this yet, I would be concerned about water on the rollers. Whadday think?

-OCD

As Kaiser states, if you use too much water, you MAY get some grain sticking. I used 2% by weight... and there was no grain sticking to the rollers. It worked just as Kai said it would. The grain is dry, you are adding a very MINUTE amount of water to make the husk more resilient.

 

[The Pol]

Blibbity blabbity...

 

[beerocd]

Blibbity blabbity...

Was that just to keep your post count at an even number? Cuz otherwise it would be .... odd.

-OCD

 

[The Pol]

Was that just to keep your post count at an even number? Cuz otherwise it would be .... odd.

-OCD

I was about to go on a rant About how even in a thread that has nothing to do with eff... the eff. monster and wort quality comes up... WTF?

 

[beerocd]

2007 Malt Conditioning WIKI by KAI

Usually everyone is quick to slap you with a URL; What Monday night football or something?

-OCD

 

[The Pol]

2007 Malt Conditioning WIKI by KAI

Usually everyone is quick to slap you with a URL; What Monday night football or something?

-OCD

Disregard that fact that I am not changing my mill setting, or that I stated in this thread that I am trying to REDUCE my eff. I just think it is funny... as if tannins have anything to do with eff... my god ppl

I dont think that I ever stated I was trying to increase my eff... just funny how that monster always comes out, even AFTER you say you are working to reduce your eff. LOL

For the average Joe, getting a grain bed to run at 3qts/min is not even desireable... for me, it is great, recirculating systems lose eff. when they cannot turn over wort quickly.

 

[conpewter]

Hey The Pol, could I get a picture or something of your mash tun? I am still trying to track down efficiency issues in my setup. I've done a lot of water adjustment as you know so I don't believe that to be my issue, PH papers show I'm in the right range but they are not very accurate anyway.

 

[The Pol]

Hey The Pol, could I get a picture or something of your mash tun? I am still trying to track down efficiency issues in my setup. I've done a lot of water adjustment as you know so I don't believe that to be my issue, PH papers show I'm in the right range but they are not very accurate anyway.

I can get you one, is your conversion eff. lacking, ,or lauter? That is the real question. If you have good conversion eff, your lauter eff can SUCK and you are still at 80%

I dont currently have one, but it is just a SS falsie in the bottom of a 10 gallon cooler...

 

[The Pol]

CONPEWTER!

Here in this video of mine, at 3:55 you can see my MLT innards!
http://iam.homebrewtalk.com/videos.php?u=7954&Video_ID=119#video119

 

[conpewter]

Hmm I've been wanting to improve both. I need to get my first runnings readings and find out how my efficiency is doing. I have an old grain mill and I'm saving up for one I can adjust to perhaps help with conversion.

I'm also worried my stainless braid in the cooler doesn't siphon very well and leaves wort behind.

 

[bob1852]

I was about to go on a rant About how even in a thread that has nothing to do with eff... the eff. monster and wort quality comes up... WTF?

the Godwin's law of HBT - all threads turn into efficiency and wort quality

 

[beerocd]

Hmm I've been wanting to improve both. I need to get my first runnings readings and find out how my efficiency is doing. I have an old grain mill and I'm saving up for one I can adjust to perhaps help with conversion.

I'm also worried my stainless braid in the cooler doesn't siphon very well and leaves wort behind.

You can borrow my mill or my pot with false bottom if you're trying to prove something to yourself. Also got a 5 gal cooler with plastic false bottom. Let me know...

-OCD

 

[The Pol]

It is nice to know where your eff. is coming from. I mean, if you hit 80% and it is all coming from your conversion eff, that is awesome.

If your eff. is 70% and it is all coming from your lauter, that is a potential problem.

If someone has never calculated thier conversion or lauter eff, you have no idea what is actually taking place, which means you could be oversparging. I think Conpewter suspects his conversion eff. and he wants to check it and increase it so he can then sparge less and improve quality.

It is false to assume that lower eff. means you arent oversparging, quite contrary. So it is nice to look at the system and determine if you are making sugars, or if you are just sparging like crazy to get the ones that you do convert, out.

 

[The Pol]

the Godwin's law of HBT - all threads turn into efficiency and wort quality

Even though it seems understanding of either is quite limited.

 

[hopsoda]

will this work with a corona mill?

 

[The Pol]

You know, I saw that thread

I dont know, since the Corona is not a roller mill, it is more prone to tearing the husks. I DO think it will help, and I think people have used it on them. Id give it a try. Do a test, the difference is HUGE, so you will be able to tell easily.

 

[beerocd]

I think Conpewter suspects his conversion eff. and he wants to check it and increase it so he can then sparge less and improve quality.

So then the mill.....

Man somebody REALLY pushed your buttons tonight POL.

You got the double-wide soap box out!

-OCD

 

[The Pol]

Blibbity blabbity...


Back to the OP, malt conditioning works and is SUPER easy.

 

[Beerrific]

I think I am going to try this on my next beer....

What is the ideal time between wetting it and crushing?
The Pol, what is you gap in your mill set at?

 

[The Pol]

I think I am going to try this on my next beer....

What is the ideal time between wetting it and crushing?
The Pol, what is you gap in your mill set at?

They say you can wait overnight... I waited 10 minutes.

My gap is .035"

Try it, it will blow your mind!!

 

[Hex]

I've been following this one with interest.
10 minutes might be just enough to soften the hulls, while leaving the germ intact.
When put through the crusher, the hulls will separate from the germ intact, and the germ will grind as normally dry.

 

[OLDBREW]

make sure you have SS rollers, or you really dry the rollers well after milling. If not you will get rust on the steel knurled rollers. Germans use this method to cut down on the dust and get a better crush.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I think I am going to try this on my next beer....

What is the ideal time between wetting it and crushing?
The Pol, what is you gap in your mill set at?

Hex got it...that quote from the pro brewer earlier in the thread mentioned it too...you want the husk leathery but the kernel dry so it cracks and crumbles like normal. So I wouldn't condition it the night before crushing it. I usually wait about 10 minutes.

Glad it worked so well for you Pol...well I guess we'll see when you do your mash.

 

[The Pol]

Hex got it...that quote from the pro brewer earlier in the thread mentioned it too...you want the husk leathery but the kernel dry so it cracks and crumbles like normal. So I wouldn't condition it the night before crushing it. I usually wait about 10 minutes.

Glad it worked so well for you Pol...well I guess we'll see when you do your mash.

I am going to start the brewcast a little early and condition the malt live, then mill it, by hand as well.
It worked really well, the grist looks NOTHING like the dry milled grist (husks only), but we will see if it allows me to turn over a couple quarts/min.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I turn by hand too and it seems harder when conditioned. In the other thread I mentioned that it might not look crushed enough but that those intact husks are actually empty. Yours looks just like that. I'll be interested to see if you get any more grits passing...I get a little more but I'm just fly sparging, not circulating.

 

[The Pol]

I turn by hand too and it seems harder when conditioned. In the other thread I mentioned that it might not look crushed enough but that those intact husks are actually empty. Yours looks just like that. I'll be interested to see if you get any more grits passing...I get a little more but I'm just fly sparging, not circulating.

Yeah, I am interested in the particles too... after 90 minutes of recirculating, it will be interesting to see where it is at for clarity.

It was a little tighter to crush by hand, but not hard at all... never crushed by hand and I thought it was pretty easy. I will do it tomorrow to to keep myself and the malt connected on a more spiritual level