Making vinegar from beer

[Curtis2010]

Did a little research over coffee...

Estimation. If starting with a known quantity of alcohol, and assuming a conversion rate, you can estimate. One approach here: cooking.stackexchange.com/questions/24487/how-do-i-calculate-the-final-acidity-of-homemade-vinegar

Measurement. You can measure by titration. Getting set up to do proper titration could be a little spendy, but some homebrew supplies sell rudimentary titration kits at a cost effective price. See: www.midwestsupplies.com/acid-testing-kit.html

 

[unionrdr]

So if you know the amount of alcohol, you can figure out the alcohol to acid conversion percent?

 

[Curtis2010]

So if you know the amount of alcohol, you can figure out the alcohol to acid conversion percent?

In the example above they assumed 100% conversion, but I expect real world is not 100%...a bit more reasearch might turn up a real world number.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, Between yesterday & today, I finally got these to make the vinegar with. Gotta take some FG samples to see if the Cooper's English Bitter is ready...

I figured the 5G fine-mesh bags would be good to cover the bucket with, since it needs air to do it's thing? Besides, there's 2 bags in the pack, & I can use a finer mesh in my BK/MT.

 

[Curtis2010]

Well, Between yesterday & today, I finally got these to make the vinegar with. Gotta take some FG samples to see if the Cooper's English Bitter is ready...
...
I figured the 5G fine-mesh bags would be good to cover the bucket with, since it needs air to do it's thing? Besides, there's 2 bags in the pack, & I can use a finer mesh in my BK/MT.

Yes, aceto likes air. Areate the beer well too.

 

[unionrdr]

You mean aerate it after transferring the fermented gallon of beer to the vinegar bucket? Wanna make sure I get this as right as possible the first time...

 

[Curtis2010]

You mean aerate it after transferring the fermented gallon of beer to the vinegar bucket? Wanna make sure I get this as right as possible the first time...

Yes, at least give it a good vigorous pour...thats what I do.

 

[Curtis2010]

Just had homebrewed malt vineagr with fried red snapper...yum!

 

[Tegra]

?....some homebrew supplies sell rudimentary titration kits at a cost effective price. See: www.midwestsupplies.com/acid-testing-kit.html

Has anyone tried this?

I understand it is for measuring the acid levels in juice. I wonder if if it can handle to high acid level in a finished vinegar.

Someone suggested rigging up a water displacement unit to measure how much gas is produced when a fixed amount of baking soda is added to fixed amount of test vinegar. (You would compare this with the amount from a store bought vinegar of known value)

Tom

 

[Curtis2010]

Has anyone tried this?

I understand it is for measuring the acid levels in juice. I wonder if if it can handle to high acid level in a finished vinegar.

Someone suggested rigging up a water displacement unit to measure how much gas is produced when a fixed amount of baking soda is added to fixed amount of test vinegar. (You would compare this with the amount from a store bought vinegar of known value)

Tom

Have not, and dont kmow the range of this test kit.

 

[unionrdr]

Well, the Cooper's ordinary bitter is finally at a stable FG. Pretty clear too. Came out to 5.06% by Cooper's Formula of (OG-FG)/7.46 + .5= ABV%. Nothing floating on top, as seen through the clear part of the screw-on lid (Cooper's Micro Brew FV). I hope 1 oz UK/EKG @ 15 minutes won't be too much for vinegar, let alone the ABV percentage? Gotta wait for SWMBO to finish with the sink so I can measure 1 gallon in 2 gallon pail to mark it before proceeding. I'm going to shake up her quart of natural cider vinegar (iow, with mother) & measure 1/2C to add to the beer. Got a 5G fine mesh paint strainer bag with draw cord to tie around the top to let air in.

 

[unionrdr]

Waited until today, as it was bubbling here & there since Saturday. Got about a pint over 1 gallon in the two gallon pail. Stretched a 2G or so paint strainer bag over the top to keep the fruit flies out. Top of the bags are elastic, so that worked out great. Added 1/2C of natural cider vinegar " with mother". so now we wait to see if it works...


Aerated it as was suggested when adding mother.

 

[unionrdr]

I got a couple more pics just now that shows the 2G fine mesh paint strainer bag I used to cover the pail with. You might be able to see the surface of the ordinary bitter with the mother going to work on it. Kinds looks like a pellicle, but a bit different. Kinda foamy/swirly on the surface. The paint strainer bag has elastic around the top, so i could get it tighter around the top more easily.



It's overcast this morning, so the flash washes it out a bit. But you can see the surface through the fine mesh. It definitely keeps those pesky fruit flies out!

 

[Curtis2010]

Kool...easy gear for vinegar brewing.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah, I thought to keep it simple this first time & see how well it works. Then go from there if needs be. It does look to be working rather well, so we'll see.

 

[coyote68]

be sure to keep it in a warm dark place. sunlight really stalls it out and the warmer it is the faster it'll work. good luck

 

[unionrdr]

Hm, don't really have a dark place & can't cover it to let the air get to it. Gotta finish rinsing out the Cooper's FV & see if that blocks some light from the fron door sidelights & the two windows. Although the curtains are closed most of the time.

 

[coyote68]

Hm, don't really have a dark place & can't cover it to let the air get to it. Gotta finish rinsing out the Cooper's FV & see if that blocks some light from the fron door sidelights & the two windows. Although the curtains are closed most of the time.

i put an old black t shirt over my gallon jars. it still lets enough air into the mix.

 

[unionrdr]

Just took another look at it. It's getting a pellicle on top that looks like lightening bolts, but no bubbles? Blocked off more light with an old black velvet smoking jacket the dog chewed on.

 

[Curtis2010]

Just took another look at it. It's getting a pellicle on top that looks like lightening bolts, but no bubbles? Blocked off more light with an old black velvet smoking jacket the dog chewed on.

Dont normally get bubbles from acetobact ferm.

You washed that jacket first right...Im thinking dog spit vinegar is not a prefered varieties.

 

[unionrdr]

It's not over or around the bucket. Just draped in front of it over the two fermenters on the front of the fermenter stand. It's been washed since the dog was around, but could stand a bit of washing again.

 

[burninator]

Just took another look at it. It's getting a pellicle on top that looks like lightening bolts, but no bubbles? Blocked off more light with an old black velvet smoking jacket the dog chewed on.

If you're letting it turn naturally, you're going to get all kinds of yeast and bugs with your acetobacter. I might let it ferment a while like it is, but the pellicle is going to act to protect the beer from necessay oxygen.

 

[unionrdr]

I was worried about that. Should I skim it off, or will that do any good? I hate to loose the gallon of beer I'm trying to do something good with? * Tried skimming it with a sanitized tea spoon. God a decent amount of it, but not all. Maybe use the edge of a paper towel drawn across the surface?

 

[Curtis2010]

I was worried about that. Should I skim it off, or will that do any good? I hate to loose the gallon of beer I'm trying to do something good with? * Tried skimming it with a sanitized tea spoon. God a decent amount of it, but not all. Maybe use the edge of a paper towel drawn across the surface?

What was the consitency of what you skimmed?

Normal acetobact mother is just clear/translucent cellulose. If its that, then it wont hurt a thing. No need to skim. It will just eventually fall to the bottom.

 

[unionrdr]

Thin, rather delicate wrinkly lookin' white. The wrinkles shaped themselves much like the extreme, lightnin' bolts from hell you see in the night sky sometimes that linger a might.

 

[Curtis2010]

Smell? Taste? (of the beer).

 

[unionrdr]

It is starting to get a wee vinegar smell to it, from the little bit that came out in the tea spoon with the skied film particles.

 

[Curtis2010]

Vinegar smell and taste(?) are a good sign.

Mother formation is normal (sounds like it could just be that).

I say let it ride and check again in a few weeks (aceto ferm is slow).

 

[unionrdr]

Thanks. It definitely needs more time. * Took a peek just now (4:15PM) & the pellicle I skimmed off is almost gone? Unless that's what the early stage of the mother looks like?

 

[Tegra]

My method using pool test kit (ph, chlorine with the double vial and Phenol Red drops)

Mix up some baking soda solution. (about a tablespoon in 50 ml distilled water) The solution will be saturated and some will be left undissolved on the bottom. Let this settle so you have clear liquid on top.

Fill both sides of the test vial with distilled water to equal levels, leaving 1/2 inch space at top.

Add four drops of Phenol Red to each side.

With an eye dropper, add three drops of reference vinegar to first and three drops of your test vinegar to the second. The solution should change a bright yellow. (Clean the eye dropper)

Add drops of baking soda solution to the reference side, one at a time until the solution reaches a pink and divided this number (for me it was 16) by the percent strength of the reference vinegar. (Usually 5%) to give the reference number (for me about 3.2).

Add drops to the test side until it matches the same colour. Divide the number of drops by the reference number to get the strength of you vinegar in. (For me this was 12 drops, so my strength was 3.75%)

Tom

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1445872613.751134.jpg

 

[unionrdr]

So this way is accurate in giving percentage of vinegar present? Mostly concerned that the pellicle-looking film was a mother forming, or an infection.

 

[Curtis2010]

So this way is accurate in giving percentage of vinegar present? Mostly concerned that the pellicle-looking film was a mother forming, or an infection.

Mother forming is normal and fine, nothing needs to done, something else forming a pellicle...the damage is probably already done.

Hows it taste?

 

[Curtis2010]

My method using pool test kit (ph, chlorine with the double vial and Phenol Red drops)
....

There you go...budget titration!

 

[unionrdr]

I haven't tasted it yet. Thought it was a bit too early, even though it smelled a bit of vinegar?

 

[unionrdr]

Had to take a sample of the Hellfire IIPA a lil bit ago, & checked up on the vinegar pail. There's a very slight film on it, but not like before. So it seems something is definitely going on. Will have to take a small sample later...

 

[unionrdr]

Me too...

 

[Curtis2010]

Bottled some cider vinegar today. Its been conditioning since August on a small amount of oak chips. Pretty tasty. Nice color.

View attachment 1447021045433.jpg

 

[A2HB]

Is it ok to ferment the vinegar in a plastic pitcher like one you would use to make lemonade? I bought a couple at the $1 store but im hesistant to use them cause I havent read of anyone using those in my reading of this thread. They are "food grade" but not sure if the acid will eat thru the plastic or something? Any feedback is appreciated!

 

[unionrdr]

They should be ok, as long as they're food grad. and the acidic acid isn't strong enough to do what, say, hydrochloric acid might.

 

[Curtis2010]

Is it ok to ferment the vinegar in a plastic pitcher like one you would use to make lemonade? I bought a couple at the $1 store but im hesistant to use them cause I havent read of anyone using those in my reading of this thread. They are "food grade" but not sure if the acid will eat thru the plastic or something? Any feedback is appreciated!

Look up numeric codes for plastics. You will find a number in a triangle on the bottom of most plastic containers. Some types, like "7", do not have good resistance to acids and will leach...tastes nasty and cannot possibly be good for (guess how I know!).

Glass is a safe bet for vinegar.