making a gose

[drainpour]

So I'm planning on using the MTF recipe for making a gose which basically calls for 50/50 Wheat and Pilsner malt. It calls for Goldings as the hop addition in the mash and no boiling of the wort. I was wondering though, since I chill my wort down with a copper immersion wort chiller how do I get the coil to be sanitized? I usually sanitize it buy putting it in the boil the last 20 min. I figured I could let it sit over night in StarSan but I wasn't 100% confident with that. I was hoping someone on here had more experience. Thanks

 

[soundguy]

I have only done two no boil beers. On both of them I put my chiller in the wort and headed up to about 170 and held for a few minutes to hopefully kill whatever was in there.

 

[stpug]

I simply spray it down with startsan really well. It has worked so far. But I keep a clean IC as it is so if your IC is crudy then give it a good steam bath in a pot with a little water and the lid on.

As for the hops, I have had "issues" with souring when using hops. If you're using a trusted yeast lab lacto source then you are probably fine with a small addition, but if you're using a probiotic source of lacto then I would forgo any hop addition (or some how incorporate it afterwards).

 

[drainpour]

Yeah as for my lacto I'm using white labs delbrueckii and brevis...the delbrueckii is expired by two months so I just threw it in a starter with the brevis.
I think I might opt out of the hop addition completely and steam the IC an extra kettle I have.
Have any of you experimented with adding any kind of fruit or any kind of citrus zest at flame out?

 

[Agate]

I've added the zest and juice of three limes at flameout in a Gose. It's fantastic. Like a sour shandy. Dry hopped with basil, too.

I just put the IC in the wort while pasteurizing at 165-170 for about 15 minutes. Between the heat and acid, it should be pretty much sanitary.

 

[chefchris]

Yeah as for my lacto I'm using white labs delbrueckii and brevis...the delbrueckii is expired by two months so I just threw it in a starter with the brevis.
I think I might opt out of the hop addition completely and steam the IC an extra kettle I have.
Have any of you experimented with adding any kind of fruit or any kind of citrus zest at flame out?

I've done a lot of kettle sours and fruit goes very well with them, kind of helps add another layer of acidity. I'm adding some pineapple juice to one tomorrow.

I wouldn't throw them in the boil, though, add them after fermentation is done. Zest at flame out is fine.

 

[drainpour]

Brew day went off with out a hitch! I ended up soaking the IC in sanitizer that morning and added .75oz of salt and zested 3 limes at boil then whirlpool and flameout. The gravity came out to 1.032 (was aiming for 1.035). I pitch the lacto starter which had a pH reading of 3.2 at 95f and this is what I have less than 24 hrs later. I've never done this so was wondering if this looks right?
I'm planning to pitch a 1L brett starter today but as you can see there's not much head space, so I was thinking of siphoning out 1L from the carboy and replaced it with the starter?
I didn't wanna decant the brett starter, my reasoning being that I want every cell in there if I can...
Anybody have a better idea?

 

[lshaner]

Looks like you have yeast in there. Lacto does not create a large, foamy krausen. Another way to confirm yeast in there would be to check gravity. If you have greater than 10% apparent attenuation (especially coupled with the krausen formation you're seeing), you've got a "yeast infection." If you achieve the degree of souring you're looking for, it ultimately won't matter though (unless it's a nasty tasting yeast).

 

[chefchris]

Looks like you have yeast in there. Lacto does not create a large, foamy krausen. Another way to confirm yeast in there would be to check gravity. If you have greater than 10% apparent attenuation (especially coupled with the krausen formation you're seeing), you've got a "yeast infection." If you achieve the degree of souring you're looking for, it ultimately won't matter though (unless it's a nasty tasting yeast).

Well he used brevis and that's normal looking for it .... because it's got yeast in it. I still love it, though.

 

[drainpour]

Yeah this is my first time using this bacteria so I'll check the gravity Tuesday which will be one week in the fermentor and post the results. I also just received the Omega Labs OYL-605 the lacto blend so if this doesn't turn out well I'll try another method and use that bacteria. Thanks everybody for the input so far!

 

[inflictor-of-grimness]

Well he used brevis and that's normal looking for it .... because it's got yeast in it. I still love it, though.

Brevis has yeast in it? I thought it was just heterofermentative.

 

[lshaner]

Brevis has yeast in it? I thought it was just heterofermentative.

It doesn't purposefully have yeast in it. It's just frequently cross-contaminated with yeast. L. brevis is heterofermentative, but even a heterofermentative Lactobacillus does not create a foamy krausen or drop the gravity significantly.

 

[Joe_CraftBeerTraders]

My berliner weisse recipe is very similar in grain and I hop in the mash, boil for 20 min and then pitch the lacto and sach after it cools. Ive had much success with this method.

 

[505-Brewer]

It doesn't purposefully have yeast in it. It's just frequently cross-contaminated with yeast. L. brevis is heterofermentative, but even a heterofermentative Lactobacillus does not create a foamy krausen or drop the gravity significantly.

Edit:
Milkthefunk has a write up on this topic.

"The amount of CO2 produced is very small in heterofermentative species. Lance Shaner of Omega Yeast Labs noted that although L. brevis is classified as obligatory heterofermentative, the human eye cannot detect any CO2 production in the Omega Yeast Lactobacillus blend (OYL-605). Lance still needs to test this blend to see if it produces any CO2 at all. It is clear though that any type of Lactobacillus, regardless of whether it is heterofermentative or homofermentative, cannot produce a krausen. Krausens are sometimes seen with the use of commercially available Lactobacillus cultures. If a krausen develops in wort when it is the only culture that is pitched, this is indicative of cross contamination of Saccharomyces or Brettanomyces in either the wort, or the Lactobacillus culture itself [27]. In addition to this, heterolactic fermentation by Lactobacillus can only produce 10-20% of the ethanol that Saccharomyces can produce [28], therefore a high level of attenuation cannot be achieved by Lactobacillus and is again a sign of cross contamination by yeast."

I thought I made a 100% lacto fermented mango sour once but based on the above it had to be "contaminated" with yeast" Any thoughts, did the yeast most likely come from the Lacto Brevis vial, the Lacto culture I cultured from grain or simply my brewery?

 

[drainpour]

Since this has been such an informative post for me I thought I'd update with some progress and more questions....
I took a sample today exactly one week after brew day.
1.008
O.G. was 1.034
I also too a pH reading 2.91...way lower than i could have wanted.
The pH of the lacto starter was 3.29 before pitching
And the wort before anything was pitched was 5.21
As for taste and smell...very acidic kinda harsh even...smell is lime not salt nothing else just lime.
I added .75oz of salt at end of boil and zested 4 limes.
will another week fermenting help this beer any? I did pitch brett, should I give it more time to work?

 

[Agate]

Mine smelled like some kind of furniture polish after a week from the lime. It tamed after another couple of weeks. Carbonated, it was perfect. I wouldn't worry yet.

That's an awfully low ph from just lacto... Any chance the cal was off?

 

[drainpour]

Mine smelled like some kind of furniture polish after a week from the lime. It tamed after another couple of weeks. Carbonated, it was perfect. I wouldn't worry yet.

That's an awfully low ph from just lacto... Any chance the cal was off?

I sure hope the cal is off.
I'm gonna check again this weekend after I get more calibrating solution.