Maharaja Clone

[Saccharomyces]

i get it now....

do you think this'll be a good partial mash?

how the heck did you get it down to 12.....

Exactly as I posted it, it has no problem getting down to 1.012 with London Ale yeast since the wort is highly fermentable (only 3% crystal and mashed at 151*F).

As a PM you could do this, I would recommend using Chris Colby's method to increase fermentability. The idea is to use as much 2-row as you can handle in your system, plus the victory and C120. Add the extract *to the minimash* so the enzymes can break it down and make it more fermentable. Hold between 149 and 151 for about an hour and a half. Then drain and sparge the grains to collect the full volume for the boil.

If you can't do a full volume boil you would need to do something else to increase fermentability like use 2# of corn sugar in place of extract.
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[motobrewer]

I can do full volume boils, but my mash tun is a plastic cooler, so the only way to add heat is to also add water. Seems like I'd have to add a lot of water to hold at 150 for 1.5 hours....maybe not.

I can mash 10lb of grain. Adding the extract to the mash seems intriguing, any links to good reading on this? Adding 5lb of DME to the minimash seems like it'd take up a lot of volume and would have to use less water. 10lb of grain + 12.5 quarts of water + 5lb of dme....wonder if that'll all fit in a 5 gallon cooler

 

[Saccharomyces]

I can do full volume boils, but my mash tun is a plastic cooler, so the only way to add heat is to also add water. Seems like I'd have to add a lot of water to hold at 150 for 1.5 hours....maybe not.

I can mash 10lb of grain. Adding the extract to the mash seems intriguing, any links to good reading on this? Adding 5lb of DME to the minimash seems like it'd take up a lot of volume and would have to use less water. 10lb of grain + 12.5 quarts of water + 5lb of dme....wonder if that'll all fit in a 5 gallon cooler

I'd go with 8# and fill er up to the top with water to keep the mash thin. Those 5 gallon coolers will hold temp just fine if they are full, if it drops a couple of degrees you are fine since I worry more about underattenuating than overattenuating in this beer.

I don't know about a resource for the mashing of extract, it's something I picked up chatting with Chris Colby at one of the homebrew club meetings over the summer, he does PMs for 5 gallon batches and doesn't bother dragging out the AG equipment unless he is going to do 10 gallons.

 

[motobrewer]

Interesting. 2.5 quarts per pound? Seems like a lot, but I'm not knowledgeable about mashing at all.

Should only have to do one more batch sparge, then, since i'm mashing close to the full volume. Thanks!

 

[Saccharomyces]

I prefer to mash as thin as possible, it makes it easier to stir the mash to work out dough balls and in this case ensures that the enzymes will reach all of the extract. braukaiser.com has lots of information and experimental results with varying mash thicknesses.

 

[mb2696]

how are you guys dry hopping this? i usually use whole leaf hops in a nylon hop bag in the keg. BUT, they are small bags and can only fit ~1 oz per bag. 8 bags would be annoying. maybe I'll get one of the giant nylon bags?

also, how long are you guys dry-hopping?

 

[Yambor44]

how are you guys dry hopping this? i usually use whole leaf hops in a nylon hop bag in the keg. BUT, they are small bags and can only fit ~1 oz per bag. 8 bags would be annoying. maybe I'll get one of the giant nylon bags?

also, how long are you guys dry-hopping?

I use pellets and just throw them in. Here's my clone on tap now. Very nice.

Maharaja IPA
14-C Imperial IPA
Author: HBT
Date: 12/9/09

Size: 11.0 gal
Efficiency: 76.0%
Attenuation: 88.0%
Calories: 277.88 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.085 (1.070 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.010 (1.010 - 1.020)
Color: 14.32 (8.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 9.83% (7.5% - 10.0%)
Bitterness: 102.5 (60.0 - 120.0)

Ingredients:
34.0 lb American 2-row
1.12 lb Victory® Malt
1.12 lb Crystal Malt 120°L
2.5 oz Columbus (14.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
2.5 oz Columbus (14.0%) - added during boil, boiled 30 min
4.0 oz Centennial (6.9%) - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min
4.0 oz Simcoe (12.2%) - added during boil, boiled 0.0 min
8.0 oz Simcoe (12.2%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
4.0 oz Centennial (6.9%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
4.4 oz Chinook (10.7%) - added dry to secondary fermenter


Notes
Mash at 154 for 60 minutes.

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.7

 

[iammatt]

I really dig Maharaja but it's a once in a while kind of a brew for myself. Any ideas on how the hop flavor and aroma holds up over extended aging?

 

[ILOVEBEER]

I tried this brew last year when it was in season.....HOLY SH*T.....It threw me for a loop. I had never had an IIPA until this...........EXTREME BREWING is what this is!

 

[axlrose16]

you need to use some bullion hops for this to be an authentic clone...

 

[marc06]

you need to use some bullion hops for this to be an authentic clone...

Since when? And says who? Not Avery, from the website:
Beer Style: Imperial India Pale Ale
Hop Variety: Simcoe, Columbus, Centennial and Chinook
Malt Variety: Two-row barley, caramel 120L, victory
OG: 1.090 * ABV: 10.24% * IBUs: 102
Color: Dark Amber
Availability: Seasonally produced from March through August. 22oz. bombers, 1/6BBL and 1/2BBL kegs.

 

[axlrose16]

Hold on to your knickers, Florida dude. I live down the street from Avery. They use Bullion. A website is a marketing tool, not a place to find recipes verbatim.

 

[marc06]

Why would they go through the trouble of updating their website every year when they redo the recipe if its just a marketing tool? Or why would any brewery go through the trouble...

 

[axlrose16]

Again - please feel free to come visit Boulder and tour the brewery. Just past the bright tanks on the left is the cooler. You will find said Bullion hops snuggling inside.

Bullion hops aren't all that well known and don't quite spark the interest or draw that your usual suspects in an American Imperial IPA do. You will regularly find breweries that do not fully disclose their recipes on their websites, other marketing material or even the very package it comes in.

Would you like me to take pictures inside the Avery cooler the next time I'm over there?

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

Again - please feel free to come visit Boulder and tour the brewery. Just past the bright tanks on the left is the cooler. You will find said Bullion hops snuggling inside.

Bullion hops aren't all that well known and don't quite spark the interest or draw that your usual suspects in an American Imperial IPA do. You will regularly find breweries that do not fully disclose their recipes on their websites, other marketing material or even the very package it comes in.

Would you like me to take pictures inside the Avery cooler the next time I'm over there?

To be fair, I know you hang out there and all, but the recipe that Avery gave out at their society meeting is posted earlier in the thread and I also have a copy at home which is the same. Maybe they did change it recently, but this is an old thread, so who knows...I'll ask one of the brewers at the strong ale fest next weekend if they changed it, but these recipes certainly are a Maharajah clone, just maybe not Maha 2010...

 

[axlrose16]

K I don't know how else to explain this... the website means jack when they don't have the exact hops quoted on said website and it's time to brew : Avery is a small brewery, like many in Boulder. These breweries, one of which I work with, run out of hops on a pretty regular basis due to low storage space and the fact that we use TONS of hops. Bullion just so happens to be a good substitute for Columbus. Bullion is ALWAYS around in the Avery cooler. You can ask the brewer and they'll spout off the recipe posted on the website. Reality kicks in when you're due to brew a batch of Maha and you don't have all the hops you posted on your marketing tool...I mean... website. See ya at Strong Ale Fest. Cheers.

 

[Saccharomyces]

I have the recipes from 2006 and 2008 in my notes. They are different. 2009 was definitely different than 2008 (I didn't like something about last years batch...) due to changes in hop availability as well as the hops themselves. Widmer blends a bunch of hops to keep their brews more consistent from year to year, whereas small guys like Avery don't.

I don't see this as a problem as a consumer. But it does make it a challenge to replicate the brew since it is a moving target.

 

[ColoradoXJ13]

K I don't know how else to explain this... the website means jack when they don't have the exact hops quoted on said website and it's time to brew : Avery is a small brewery, like many in Boulder. These breweries, one of which I work with, run out of hops on a pretty regular basis due to low storage space and the fact that we use TONS of hops. Bullion just so happens to be a good substitute for Columbus. Bullion is ALWAYS around in the Avery cooler. You can ask the brewer and they'll spout off the recipe posted on the website. Reality kicks in when you're due to brew a batch of Maha and you don't have all the hops you posted on your marketing tool...I mean... website. See ya at Strong Ale Fest. Cheers.

\

I didn't say anything about the website, and I didn't say that they don't use Bullion now or haven't in the past, I'm just saying that the recipe, on a piece of paper, that they gave out in 2009, was listed above in the thread. So maybe Maja 2010 has bullion, but as far as Avery brewers (who I know well) are concerned, the recipe didn't have bullion in 2009.

By your reasoning, it would be impossible to ever brew a 'clone' of Maha because the recipe is constantly changing. What if I want to clone the 2008 batch...which is likely what the OP wanted to do. Did it have bullion in 2008...have you looked at the brewing notes from those batches?

 

[marc06]

That is exactly what I was saying.... Thanks for backing me up Colorado and Saccharomyces. Granted, I'm not saying they have never used Bullion in their Maharaja because they were out of Columbus for a batch or two. However, each year they use different hops and are nice enough to "market" me their hop choices on their website. And with this, I think that they would consistently use the same hops in their beer as they do your "marketing" pages.

 

[Yambor44]

K I don't know how else to explain this... the website means jack when they don't have the exact hops quoted on said website and it's time to brew : Avery is a small brewery, like many in Boulder. These breweries, one of which I work with, run out of hops on a pretty regular basis due to low storage space and the fact that we use TONS of hops. Bullion just so happens to be a good substitute for Columbus. Bullion is ALWAYS around in the Avery cooler. You can ask the brewer and they'll spout off the recipe posted on the website. Reality kicks in when you're due to brew a batch of Maha and you don't have all the hops you posted on your marketing tool...I mean... website. See ya at Strong Ale Fest. Cheers.

I think the statement you made initially is the challenge:

you need to use some bullion hops for this to be an authentic clone...

Substituting Bullion for Columbus is one thing. Stating you can't make an authentic clone without it is another.

 

[axlrose16]

LOL - Ok guys. Nevermind. Trying to be nice and give some local inside track certainly wasn't appreciated. Enjoy your clones. Try not taking this stuff personally and you may gain some insight. Laters.

 

[Yambor44]

K I don't know how else to explain this... the website means jack when they don't have the exact hops quoted on said website and it's time to brew : Avery is a small brewery, like many in Boulder. These breweries, one of which I work with, run out of hops on a pretty regular basis due to low storage space and the fact that we use TONS of hops. Bullion just so happens to be a good substitute for Columbus. Bullion is ALWAYS around in the Avery cooler. You can ask the brewer and they'll spout off the recipe posted on the website. Reality kicks in when you're due to brew a batch of Maha and you don't have all the hops you posted on your marketing tool...I mean... website. See ya at Strong Ale Fest. Cheers.

LOL - Ok guys. Nevermind. Trying to be nice and give some local inside track certainly wasn't appreciated. Enjoy your clones. Try not taking this stuff personally and you may gain some insight. Laters.

No sweat here! Just sayin.

 

[Cold Country Brewery]

Hold on to your knickers, Florida dude. I live down the street from Avery. They use Bullion. A website is a marketing tool, not a place to find recipes verbatim.

Hold on to your knickers, live down the street from Avery dude.
http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/750
Jamil interviewed Adam Avery. According to Adam the hops used in the Maharaja are:
Columbus
Centennial
Simcoe
Chinook

So although

Bullion is ALWAYS around in the Avery cooler.

it could be for a different beer.

 

[Reidman]

Going to try brewing this monster for my next brew. Aside from Southern Tier's Unearthly and DFH's 120min, this is far and away one of my favorite IIPA's! Yummmmmm...

 

[Reidman]

To those who have brewed this:

Is a starter absolutely necessary? I won't have time to make one. I plan on pitching a tube of white labs California yeast w/ nutrient but should I pitch 2 or will one vial be sufficient to achieve the necessary FG to get to 11% abv...?

 

[g-star]

To those who have brewed this:

Is a starter absolutely necessary? I won't have time to make one. I plan on pitching a tube of white labs California yeast w/ nutrient but should I pitch 2 or will one vial be sufficient to achieve the necessary FG to get to 11% abv...?

For a beer this big, a starter is the way to go with liquid yeast. If not, you'll need more than three tubes of WLP001 to approach the proper pitching rate....seems like a waste of $$$ to me.

I would go with 1.5 packs of S-05 and forget about the liquid yeast and starters. This will give you the proper cell count at a fraction of the time and cost for what is basically an identical yeast strain.

 

[Reidman]

For a beer this big, a starter is the way to go with liquid yeast. If not, you'll need more than three tubes of WLP001 to approach the proper pitching rate....seems like a waste of $$$ to me.

I would go with 1.5 packs of S-05 and forget about the liquid yeast and starters. This will give you the proper cell count at a fraction of the time and cost for what is basically an identical yeast strain.

Thanks for the reply g-star. I had considered using the dry yeast, I just wasn't sure if it would attenuate out completely but as you pointed out it's basically the same strain just dehydrated.

I had also considered using Nottingham due to it's aggressive fermentations and high attenuation rate but I know that doesn't quite follow the lines of this recipe.

 

[duckmanco]

Thanks for the reply g-star. I had considered using the dry yeast, I just wasn't sure if it would attenuate out completely but as you pointed out it's basically the same strain just dehydrated.

I had also considered using Nottingham due to it's aggressive fermentations and high attenuation rate but I know that doesn't quite follow the lines of this recipe.

Def. don't use notty for this brew, and you will not have to worry one bit about us05 attenuating out, that stuff chews through wort and is just about perfect for that beer or any beer that needs wlp001 as a substitute.

 

[Saccharomyces]

Wyeast 1028 (or WLP013) is closest to their house yeast. I know from experience if you follow the recipe and mash at 151*F you will hit your FG exactly with it. US-05 or Nottingham are acceptible for dry yeast.

 

[Reidman]

Thanks for the feedback guys! Brewing this Tuesday, pretty excited...