Made my choice for now on the electric front going with HGB EBC-SV 120V and boilcoild

[GJOCONNELL]

I went ahead and decided due to my predominant batch size (5 gallon or lower) I will just try out the 120v boilcoil and run with a EBC-SV 120 with a secondary pump control.

For 10 gallon batches I will just stick with propane for now until I can get the 50 amp service run into the garage and then I will add two 5500watt 240 elements and then keep the 120v RIMS rocket and then I should be able to do whatever batch sizes my kettles allow.

Right now I just have a 10 gallon SS brewtech and two keggles and the 20 gallon ss brewtech mash tun so that will be more than enough options for me.

Can't wait to get the controller and boilcoil installed!

 

[Wagon_6]

What do you mean by secondary pump control? Using a second pump?

So with your 5 gallon setup, you're mashing in the Ss 20gallon and using the RIMS rocket to maintain temps?

 

[augiedoggy]

What do you mean by secondary pump control? Using a second pump?

So with your 5 gallon setup, you're mashing in the Ss 20gallon and using the RIMS rocket to maintain temps?

Makes you question the actual advantages of a huge 60lb insulated mash tun that apparently still needs a rims to maintain mash temps anyway doesnt it? Afterall the whole point of an insulated tun is so to avoid the herms or rims in a practical world isnt it?

 

[GJOCONNELL]

What do you mean by secondary pump control? Using a second pump?

So with your 5 gallon setup, you're mashing in the Ss 20gallon and using the RIMS rocket to maintain temps?

Correct my current setup has 2 pumps so I wanted a switch for both on the controller. This combined with three way valves allows me to never have to switch hoses. I hook everything up and just adjust the valves to go from HLT to Mash Tun to BK then from BK to Counterflow chiller.

The RIMS isn't specifically being used to maintain temps I just want to re-circ. to set a nice grain bed and raise efficiency. It will shorten the time it takes to vorlauf.

For the couple of 5 gallon batches I have done in the 20 gallon MT the temp dropped 1 degree over a 60 minute mash.

 

[GJOCONNELL]

Makes you question the actual advantages of a huge 60lb insulated mash tun that apparently still needs a rims to maintain mash temps anyway doesnt it? Afterall the whole point of an insulated tun is so to avoid the herms or rims in a practical world isnt it?

The 20 gallon mash tun holds temps well over a 60 minute mash....drop of 1 degree on average for about 6 batches which I found to be acceptable/great.

All the temps targets were 152 f. The RIMS isn't for holding temp....

 

[hopSTANd]

I just ordered the same - its coming in 2 days. Really excited to try it out!

 

[BrunDog]

Makes you question the actual advantages of a huge 60lb insulated mash tun that apparently still needs a rims to maintain mash temps anyway doesnt it? Afterall the whole point of an insulated tun is so to avoid the herms or rims in a practical world isnt it?

Agree with this. I actually see a downside to insulated mash tuns... on the occasion you overshoot the temp, it can take a long time to bring it back down. Haviing the damping of a non-insulated circuit helps with PID tuning too (RIMs systems).

 

[augiedoggy]

.

All the temps targets were 152 f. The RIMS isn't for holding temp....

Then why have it? Especially such an expensive rims setup of all things?(I believe its the most expensive rims on the market) Rims is in fact a system designed to hold mash temps... The same thing you already have all that insulation for. If you just like the shiny stainless and have all that extra money with nothing better to spend it on well thats fine who am I to judge. Maybe id do the same thing. We all love new toys.
... Im just trying to figure out what the thought process is behind such expensive pieces of mismatched equipment being used together. I guess if you already had the mash tun and got bored of that process and decided you wanted a rims, but at that point a regular 20g kettle makes way more sense and and would be a lot easier to clean and maintain as well. Wouldnt it? Why use a huge 60lb mashtun for 5gallon when you could use something much smaller and lighter with the rims that you could just carry outside and dump into the compost or trash when done?

 

[GJOCONNELL]

The though process went a little bit like this:

My local brew shop was having a big demo sale and I go to the shop frequently and discussed with them the desire to possibly to do a pliny the younger at some point and that would be the 10 gallon MT @ 94% of capacity which was above my comfort zone also I generally like to do big DIPAs and they said if I am serious about doing DIPA 10 gallon batches I would be better of going with the 20 gallon and that the demo price was pretty much not going to be beaten (the knocked an extra 10% off to move it so the discount was substantial not 50% off but close enough that it gave me pause). Also the 20 gallon MT comes with the extra port at the top (yes, you can drill a hole in the 10 gallon MT but I didn't want to do that in fear of messing up the MT).

As for the RIMS Blichmann is what they carry locally and I don't have much extra time to design and do hobby projects so time is at a premium. Yes, I could have fuddled around with a HERMS/RIMS setup but honestly don't the time. The same can be said for the High Gravity Controller I went with. Yes, I could do the wiring myself over time but again it would take time to do it right.

I agree Blichmann/SS brewtech stuff is expensive and a lot of bling but I will admint I want my setup to look decent/presentable....yes this is a vanity thing.

My 15 gallon keggles were a hand me down from my dad so I want to keep them in the setup because they have major sentimental value.

I don't think the equipment is mis-matched at all. I want to run RIMS to set the grain bed not to address temp holding issues. Also I don't think the mash tun is 60 lbs more like 40 lbs or so but it isn't an issue I am 6'1 @ 215 lbs. I might do things a little differently if I did it all over again but I am fairly new to the homebrewing game and I think the future I will be doing 10 gallon batches for DIPAs (46 lbs grain bills) so I will use the 20 gallon MT in that case. I might be using the RIMS/Hoprocket a little different than intended but that is part of the fun...making each setup unique. My hope was to gain some efficiency using the RIMS maybe get into the high 70/low 80s in terms of efficiency if I do my part.

I do like the SS brewtech products in general and willing to pay a little extra for the more finished look (I have a couple brew buckets and one of their chronicals).

Once I get the RIMS and controller setup I should be in pretty good shape for both 5 gallon and 10 gallon batches. In the off chance I want to whip up a quick 5 gallon extract batch I can use the boilcoil in the 10 gallon kettle.

Down the line if I revamp everything I will probably sell the 20 gallon MT and go with 3 15 gallon kettles and swap out the 120v RIMS for a 240v and go with 5,500 watt heating elements in the HLT and BK. But that is probably down the line a bit have to get 50 amp service and my wife's house project list is sucking up the extra funding right now and I have other hobbies than homebrewing (i.e. rifles/funs).

Point in case I just put a deposit down on a frameless shower enclosure and my wife has a contractor waiting in the wings for some other projects for the front of the house.....ughh...

Hopefully the above clarifies and the sort version is I couldn't pass up the price of the larger MT and the burners I got from them were 50% off so it was hard to pass up and they can handle batches up to 25 gallons so I should be set for the future (that is the hope!)

 

[zgja2]

You say

"I want to run RIMS to set the grain bed not to address temp holding issues."

But the actual point of a RIMS is to control temp. I have a feeling there is a breakdown in communication here. Perhaps using the term RIMS for something else??

 

[augiedoggy]

fair enough... I understand wanting to look good. I was referring to using a stainless kettle with a false bottom which cosmetically would have still looked better than the keggles along side it and still be a lot more practical and easy to use in a rims setup.
I think though that you missed my point in that if you have the rims, the insulation and bulk of the insulated tun is really serving no purpose in your configuration. Regardless or whether you say your not using your rims to maintain the mash temps from the very point you turn it on that is in fact what its doing and what its designed for. otherwise you wouldnt need it right? You could have just used the SS brewing heater kit for the ss mashtun if you just wanted to recirculate like they designed it for.. (The actual point of recirculating for most brewers is to maintain even mash temps but I see your after higher mash efficiencies by doing it so now I see what you were thinking.) Still when looking at it from an engineering standpoint its like wearing a raincoat while in your house to keep you drier...

Someone in the ss MT thread stated it was 60lbs according to the specs thats were I got that number from which does seem a bit high.I admit... 40lbs sounds more reasonable but still too heavy to be easily manageable when full of wet grain... even for this 6' 220lb guy...

 

[augiedoggy]

You say

"I want to run RIMS to set the grain bed not to address temp holding issues."

But the actual point of a RIMS is to control temp. I have a feeling there is a breakdown in communication here. Perhaps using the term RIMS for something else??

hes not recirculating for the reasons we all do it but rather for higher efficiency and maybe clear wort... and since he feels recirculating will cause the temp to drop he needed the rims rocket just to prevent the slight heat loss in the recirculation line... The point you and I see it it adds expensive complex redundancy with additional hassle and work each brewing session.

He kinda indicated that he really liked the way the stuff looked and doesnt have the time to research alternative besides what his local shop had to offer so I could see the mismatches systems.
in any case we arent going to be productive in explaining it now the stuff has already been purchased. He has the right to use what ever he wants for whatever purpose he wants... and he did explain his outlook.

 

[GJOCONNELL]

You say

"I want to run RIMS to set the grain bed not to address temp holding issues."

But the actual point of a RIMS is to control temp. I have a feeling there is a breakdown in communication here. Perhaps using the term RIMS for something else??

I would disagree on your definition of what a RIMS is for. It is defined as Recirculating Infusion Mash System and I think infusion is defined as extracting chemicals from another item usually using water. I want to re-circulate my mash so I extract the max amount of sugar from the grain. I am specifically using a RIMS rocket from Blichmann so yes it is keeping the temp stable while the mash re-circulates but the issue isn't the MT holding temps it is because I want to re-circulate through the port on the MT (you can see a pick of what I would be using here: http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/mash-tuns/products/infussion-mash-tun-20-gal?lshst=collection) SS has a re-circ. manifold that I would be using and it sits on top of the grain bed during the re-recir. process.

I was using RIMS minus the rocket part sorry if that drove some confusion.

 

[GJOCONNELL]

hes not recirculating for the reasons we all do it but rather for higher efficiency and maybe clear wort... and since he feels recirculating will cause the temp to drop he needed the rims rocket just to prevent the slight heat loss in the recirculation line... The point you and I see it it adds expensive complex redundancy with additional hassle and work each brewing session.

He kinda indicated that he really liked the way the stuff looked and doesnt have the time to research alternative besides what his local shop had to offer so I could see the mismatches systems.
in any case we arent going to be productive in explaining it now the stuff has already been purchased. He has the right to use what ever he wants for whatever purpose he wants... and he did explain his outlook.

You hit the nail on the head here it is for clearer wort and higher efficiency. The temp drop thing isn't a feeling the temp will drop as it goes through a pump and 1/2 inch line. Not sure I am following your more hassle part. I will not be switching lines at any point during the brew it all gets setup up front. Just switch the 3 way valves and a couple button pushes and away I go from HLT to MT to BK to CF to fermenter.

Still not aligned on the comment mis-matched because it is matched for what I am trying to do achieve in the manner I wanted to do it based on what I have available locally. Could it be done differently? Yes. Each person has their own approach to the way they homebrew and part of the fun for me is making stuff work and getting stuffed dialed in.

Yes, I like the look for SS Brewtech stuff but I didn't buy it just for bling.....I bought it because it was nearly 50% off....I would have probably skipped the 20 gallon MT if it was closer to full price. Yes, the setup is slightly more complicated but if I wanted to keep it simple I would be doing extract batches in a single keggle with a single burner.......

 

[augiedoggy]

I would disagree on your definition of what a RIMS is for. It is defined as Recirculating Infusion Mash System and I think infusion is defined as extracting chemicals from another item usually using water. I want to re-circulate my mash so I extract the max amount of sugar from the grain. I am specifically using a RIMS rocket from Blichmann so yes it is keeping the temp stable while the mash re-circulates but the issue isn't the MT holding temps it is because I want to re-circulate through the port on the MT (you can see a pick of what I would be using here: http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/mash-tuns/products/infussion-mash-tun-20-gal?lshst=collection) SS has a re-circ. manifold that I would be using and it sits on top of the grain bed during the re-recir. process.

I was using RIMS minus the rocket part sorry if that drove some confusion.

you mean the sparging arm? pretty much all mash tuns have one. I recirculat the same way with my setup only I use plastic locline do redeposit the heated wort from my rims on the top of my mash ... and my MT is an uninsulated kettle with a false bottom... the 2000w rims I use is more than enough to not only maintain but also perform step mashes as your blichman rims system would also do with any mash tun insulated or not. thats the point it does the job that the insulation would normally do and then some.

What do you mean your using the blichmann rims minus the rocket? I'm only one rims device that they sell and its the rims rocket?
Rims is short for Recirculating Heat Infusion mash system btw...

 

[GJOCONNELL]

fair enough... I understand wanting to look good. I was referring to using a stainless kettle with a false bottom which cosmetically would have still looked better than the keggles along side it and still be a lot more practical and easy to use in a rims setup.
I think though that you missed my point in that if you have the rims, the insulation and bulk of the insulated tun is really serving no purpose in your configuration. Regardless or whether you say your not using your rims to maintain the mash temps from the very point you turn it on that is in fact what its doing and what its designed for. otherwise you wouldnt need it right? You could have just used the SS brewing heater kit for the ss mashtun if you just wanted to recirculate like they designed it for.. (The actual point of recirculating for most brewers is to maintain even mash temps but I see your after higher mash efficiencies by doing it so now I see what you were thinking.) Still when looking at it from an engineering standpoint its like wearing a raincoat while in your house to keep you drier...

Someone in the ss MT thread stated it was 60lbs according to the specs thats were I got that number from which does seem a bit high.I admit... 40lbs sounds more reasonable but still too heavy to be easily manageable when full of wet grain... even for this 6' 220lb guy...

I was originally going to try and use the MT heating pad to maintain temp but SS said it wasn't powerful enough to maintain temp @ 152...they said it really wasn't designed for that to begin with so far enough.

Year I hear you on the keggle part and having it match up better when I started down this path I was very much in the deep part of being a greenhorn and wasn't aware of that approach. I was stepping up from an igloo cooler that my wife got me for christmas which I still have in the shed...it gives me stankeye every time I walk in the shed.

Yes, when full of grain it is a ***** to move even for me....ahh the glory of the homebrew rabbit hole. My guess is in two years I will be full electric and matching kettle across the board and nearly fully automated (fingers crossed!).....

 

[GJOCONNELL]

you mean the sparging arm? pretty much all mash tuns have one. I recirculat the same way with my setup only I use plastic locline do redeposit the heated wort from my rims on the top of my mash ... and my MT is an uninsulated kettle with a false bottom... the little 2000w rims is more than enought to not only maintain but also perfor step mashes as your blichman rims system would also do with any mash tun insulated or not.

What do you mean your using the blichmann rims minus the rocket? I'm only one rims device that they sell and its the rims rocket?

On the 20/10 gallon ss MT there is a sparge arm that goes on the outside of the kettle. What you get with the 20 gallon is a port/re-circ. for a vorlauf attachment or to use a re-circ. manifold that sits on top of the grain bed as you mash for 60 minutes.

Mash re-recirc. is here: http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collectio...fold-for-infussion-mash-tuns?lshst=collection

Sparge Arm: http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collectio...or-10-gal-infussion-mash-tun?lshst=collection

Vorlauf attachment: http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collectio...h-tun-kettle-re-circ-fitting?lshst=collection

Hopefully this clarifies.

I wasn't aware the RIMS Rocket from blichmann could keep temps with an un-insulated MT.

For the RIMS without the rocket part I meant I was dropping the word rocket from RIMS rocket not dropping the hop rocket from the RIMS...if I did I would have a lot more issues than redundancy I would have a mash all over my feet........

 

[augiedoggy]

here a good short read on the differences between the systems used for mash temp control.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=95601

 

[augiedoggy]

On the 20 gallon ss MT there is a sparge arm that goes on the outside of the kettle. What you get with the 20 gallon is a port for a vorlauf attachment or to use a re-circ. manifold that sits on top of the grain bed as you mash for 60 minutes.

Mash re-recirc. is here: http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collectio...fold-for-infussion-mash-tuns?lshst=collection

Sparge Arm: http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collectio...or-10-gal-infussion-mash-tun?lshst=collection

Vorlauf attachment: http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collectio...h-tun-kettle-re-circ-fitting?lshst=collection

Hopefully this clarifies.

I wasn't aware the RIMS Rocket from blichmann could keep temps with an un-insulated MT.

For the RIMS without the rocket part I meant I was dropping the word rocket from RIMS rocket not dropping the hop rocket from the RIMS...if I did I would have a lot more issues than redundancy I would have a mash all over my feet........

OK now that makes more sense... and that why we were so puzzled by your choice to combine the two.

Just a heads up the point of RIMS and herms is so you dont need an insulated mash tun and id say at least 90% of rims or herms users use a regular kettle based mash tun.

 

[augiedoggy]

and yes I understand how the SS MT works my brewery MT works the same way... I have an output port under the false bottom at the bottom and a port at the top that my sparge/recirc arm connects to inside... the output port on the mt goes to the inpute of the rims which heats it to desired temp and sends it throught the port on the top and through the sparge arm back onto the mash where it recircs back down through the grainbed to repeat the cycle and prevent any temp losses...

 

[GJOCONNELL]

OK now that makes more sense... and that why we were so puzzled by your choice to combine the two.

Just a heads up the point of RIMS and herms is so you dont need an insulated mash tun and id say at least 90% of rims or herms users use a regular kettle based mash tun.

Yeah I learned that after the return period expired after 60 days....don't ask how I know the return period is 60 days....LOL Live & Learn!

At least the mistake looks good? Silver lining? LOL