Lp Gas, Honeywell Valves, & Auber Temp Control Questions

[jcav]

Hello eveyone, I really need sound advice for purchasing the correct Auber Pid temp controller for use with my system. I am in the middle of my build and I am making a single tier Brutus type direct fired gas system. I am using Lp gas from a 20 lb tank through the back gas beam of the stand. I have Honeywell VR8200 standing pilot valves with a thermocouple and pilot light to control the gas flow to the HLT and MLT 10 inch Banjo burners. I am also using needle valves to control the flame size to each burner.

My first question: There are two Auber Pid/Temp controllers that are similar and I want to know which one is better. The first one is model SYL2362 and the other is the SYL2342. I want to use RTD probes attached to tees coming out of the HLT and MLT vessel's liquid lines, to monitor the temperature, and have the correct Auber controller turn the Honeywell valves on and off. Both of these models seem like they would work fine, but is one better than the other for how I am going to use them with gas and not electricity?

Question 2: Can any one comment on the performance of their Auber controller and if they are satisfied with how its working controlling the Honeywell valves? Are you using On/Off mode or PID mode?

For instance I think On/Off mode is probably the way I will end up wiring the Auber controller, but is anyone actually using the pid modes for their gas system and solenoid valves? If so does the PID mode work better than ON/Off mode? The SYL2342 has fuzzy logic and the SYL2362 does not.

I would like to know for a five or ten gallon batch and lets say a desired mash temp of 152 degrees, what is the average amount of times the Honeywell valves turn on and off to keep the desired temp range close to 152 degrees in an hour? Does the valve turn on and off twice in 3 minutes, once every 5 minutes, or whatever, in On/Off mode. What is the average in PID mode (if any one has used this mode)? Also how is it working and what is the average times for a set temp on the HLT?

I realize there is a hysterisis band and a range of temps you can set, (two degrees, three degrees, one degree, etc) to activate and trigger the valves, and the SYL2342 has a tighter temp range that it can keep the temp at, but I just want someone to advise about how it is working for them in real life.

I was told (don't know if it is factual) that the Honeywell valves have a life of about 100,000 times of opening and closing before they start to have problems and need to be replaced. Can these valves handle opening and closing repeatedly in PID mode, or is it better to use the On/Off mode?

So there it is....Sorry so long winded but I would really like to learn some answers to the above questions, so I can make the right purchase and use the technology to the fullest extent of how it was designed. I want to have a solid working system with the best performance for the equipment I am using, and have a SMOOTH brew day!

Thanks for your time,

John

 

[jawilson20]

Such a great way of laying out this question, as I am looking for the same info. Upon reaching the end I was so disappointed lol.

 

[jcav]

Thanks I appreciate that jawilson 20! I was surprised no one answered but that's how it goes sometimes......I ended up purchasing the SYL2362. I am going to use it in on/off mode. I will probably end up posting my own results here so other people can get the answer I was looking for, at least for the pid I purchased.

My build is almost complete. I had to put it on hold for awhile with work and all. Plus I used one inch tri clovers for all the fittings on everything (expensive) and with custom Sabco kettles welded with one inch fittings the cost really added up, so I had to go slowly. Also my rather elaborate control box is now getting wired up and I am almost ready for the maiden voyage. I will probably post my build with pics when she is done.

Good Luck With Your Build!

John

 

[jawilson20]

Thanks, I too just purchased the SYL2362. Do you have a enclosure box yet? Everything thread I have come across seems to suggest that either I have one laying around or a friend with one laying around - but I don't. Any idea on the best dimension and supplier for those of use who need to buy?

 

[rtp-brew]

I just built pretty much this exact setup, so I guess I can chime in.

I went with the 2342's with RTDs. Right now they're running in on/off mode per the basic instructions in the manual. I tried one of them briefly in PID mode and the Honeywell valve started making some funky noises, so I think it didn't like that. Although I didn't really play with the PID settings, so there may be a way to clear that up.

That said, even in on/off mode it does a really good job of holding whatever temperature I set. I'm direct-fired RIMS and I let the pump run basically the entire mash. I haven't counted exactly, but the burner will cycle on maybe 3-4 times in an hour mash. I left the hysteresis band small, 1-2º too. That's just an adjustment to the liquid temperature too. I leave a lab thermometer in the grain bed and it really doesn't change once it's at the desired mash temp. I'm also using the B3/NB-style megapots. They have a nice thick bottom and hold heat really well, so that could be helping. I don't have any experience with keggles.

On the HLT the burner is on until the water gets up to whatever temp I set (~170ºF) and then shuts off. So not many valve cycles needed there. In either case, I don't really expect to reach anything approaching 100,000 cycles any time soon.

Hope that helps,

 

[jcav]

Thanks, I too just purchased the SYL2362. Do you have a enclosure box yet? Everything thread I have come across seems to suggest that either I have one laying around or a friend with one laying around - but I don't. Any idea on the best dimension and supplier for those of use who need to buy?

Yes, I first bought a 12X12 inch but it was not big enough to fit all the controls, lights, switches, etc. I then saw Kal's on the electricbrewery.com website and he posted it here on Homebrewtalk also. I ended up buying the 16X16 inch and everything fit fine. But again mine is rather elaborate. If you lay out your switches, lights, pids, etc on a piece of paper with enough space between and around each component, you can get a better idea how big a box your going to need. I bought mine from Pioneer Breaker.

 

[jcav]

I just built pretty much this exact setup, so I guess I can chime in.

I went with the 2342's with RTDs. Right now they're running in on/off mode per the basic instructions in the manual. I tried one of them briefly in PID mode and the Honeywell valve started making some funky noises, so I think it didn't like that. Although I didn't really play with the PID settings, so there may be a way to clear that up.

That said, even in on/off mode it does a really good job of holding whatever temperature I set. I'm direct-fired RIMS and I let the pump run basically the entire mash. I haven't counted exactly, but the burner will cycle on maybe 3-4 times in an hour mash. I left the hysteresis band small, 1-2º too. That's just an adjustment to the liquid temperature too. I leave a lab thermometer in the grain bed and it really doesn't change once it's at the desired mash temp. I'm also using the B3/NB-style megapots. They have a nice thick bottom and hold heat really well, so that could be helping. I don't have any experience with keggles.

On the HLT the burner is on until the water gets up to whatever temp I set (~170ºF) and then shuts off. So not many valve cycles needed there. In either case, I don't really expect to reach anything approaching 100,000 cycles any time soon.

Hope that helps,

Thanks for chiming in rtp-brew! That is good info you posted. Glad to see your set temp holds very well in on/off mode on your mash temp. Three to four cycles an hour on your valves with the hysteresis band on the pid set at 1-2 degrees, really answers my question thanks! Seems like your rig is dialed in and those Honeywell valves will last almost forever!

Happy Brewing!

John

 

[splobucket]

Jcav, can you show a diagram of how you wired the controller and the valve? It should be simple, but I want to make absolute sure I have it right.

 

[jcav]

Jcav, can you show a diagram of how you wired the controller and the valve? It should be simple, but I want to make absolute sure I have it right.

I would love to splobucket, but believe it or not the electrician I am using to wire up my system still has my box and is not finished yet. I am not that electronically savy, so I hired someone for this part. So I am still waiting. He told me is is almost finished though, he just got very busy with calls for service and wiring jobs for his business and had to do that work first.

You might check out jlandin's thread, he helped me out as well awhile back with some of my questions and he shows diagrams and how he completed his build. Here is the link with the diagram. Read the whole thread if you can there is a lot of info to glean.

www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-new-brew-system-brutus-10-some-nice-modifications-172927/index9.html

I will post photos when my build is finished. I hope this helps in the mean time.


John

 

[mpride1911]

I'm trying to set my stand up with the SYL2362 controllers as well, but am having bad luck or something with them. Could you tell me what parameters you entered into yours? In the default output, the Honeywells made a lot of clicking sounds and noises though didn't work. I changed the output setting to 3 and 4 in the on/off mode and nothing happened. I make to make sure that it's not a setting before I pull it apart and start rewiring.