Low mash efficiency

[DruBru]

Hey everyone,

I'm at my wits end here. I just brewed a hefeweizen today and I kept my mash temp at around 150-152F for the whole hour however my sugar extraction was still very poor. I was looking at getting a reading of 1.048 pre boil gravity and I hit 1.025. I'm thinking its my process causing this poor extraction. I use a three kettle system where I heat 5 gallons of water up to strike temp in my mash tun, mash in, then heat my sparge water up in a hot liquor tank and then fly sparge as the mash tun drains into my boil kettle. I'm shooting for a pre boil volume of around 6 and a quarter gallons. I feel like this process is solid and I should be seeing good results with sugar extraction but I'm not. Am I starting with too much water in the mash tun when I'm mashing in?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

My first hunch would be that your grain fell through the mill mostly unmolested...

 

[day_trippr]

^that^ is the most logical possibility.

 

[doug293cz]

My first hunch would be that your grain fell through the mill mostly unmolested...

^that^ is the most logical possibility.

This is especially a concern with wheat, as the kernels are smaller than barley kernels.

Brew on

 

[DruBru]

I bought it from morebeer premilled, but there were quite a bit of kernels that looked too intact to consider them "milled"

 

[DuncB]

Have a look at the grains post mash if they are viewable and take a picture, then discuss with Morebeer.

 

[IslandLizard]

I bought it from morebeer premilled, but there were quite a bit of kernels that looked too intact to consider them "milled"

Yeah, these big outfits' milling has always been much too coarse, even when fly sparging.
Double crushing won't help much. Just mill once and do it right.

There are a bunch of threads wherein our members have posted pictures of their milled grist.

As mentioned above, wheat kernels are quite a bit smaller than barley. They don't have a husk and are quite hard. They need a tighter gap, or most will drop through, left (largely) uncrushed.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I close the gap on my mill right down for wheat and run through twice.

 

[dmtaylor]

Damned homebrew shop mills.... time to get your own mill.

 

[DuncB]

Here's a thread and nice to see @bracconiere getting in with post 2

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/rate-my-crush.695005/

 

[Brockness Monster]

Could always buy your milled grains from Bobby.

https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1963.htm

 

[Cheshire Cat]

What efficiency are you getting with non wheat beers. I get 75% BHE on none wheat beers but get 65-70% on wheat beers. I never considered that the crush was the issue. I only buy crushed grains.

 

[dmtaylor]

What efficiency are you getting with non wheat beers. I get 75% BHE on none wheat beers but get 65-70% on wheat beers. I never considered that the crush was the issue. I only buy crushed grains.

Crush is your issue.

 

[Bobby_M]

Morebeer should be ashamed of the "milling" service.

 

[doug293cz]

Morebeer should be ashamed of the "milling" service.

I would have included "service" in quotes as well.

Brew on

 

[MaxStout]

Mills aren't cheap--a basic 2-roller mill will cost you upwards of $100.

But consider this: it won't take too many ruined batches from poorly-milled grain before you've lost the equivalent cost of a mill. And that's not even counting the time you've put into those brews.

Give some serious thought to investing in a mill. Or start buying crushed grain from another source, like Brew Hardware or Ritebrew.

 

[Indian_villager]

Don't forget to get a set of feeler gauges with the two roller mill. Helps dial in the mill and confirm your settings are held after a few batches.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I belong to a Malt Buying Cooperative who by direct from Crisp. We only buy crushed malt in full pallets of 40 x 25kg sacks. I then buy in either 3kg or 25kg from the coop. So are Crisp unable to properly crush malt I doubt it. Yet my efficiency when using a high % of wheat malt is lower than barley malt.

 

[dmtaylor]

I belong to a Malt Buying Cooperative who by direct from Crisp. We only buy crushed malt in full pallets of 40 x 25kg sacks. I then buy in either 3kg or 25kg from the coop. So are Crisp unable to properly crush malt I doubt it. Yet my efficiency when using a high % of wheat malt is lower than barley malt.

Something about da Nile and rivers in Egypt.

 

[MaxStout]

I belong to a Malt Buying Cooperative who by direct from Crisp. We only buy crushed malt in full pallets of 40 x 25kg sacks. I then buy in either 3kg or 25kg from the coop. So are Crisp unable to properly crush malt I doubt it. Yet my efficiency when using a high % of wheat malt is lower than barley malt.

I'm betting Crisp sets their mill to optimize for what the sell the most of--likely barley. Then when a batch of wheat comes along, they just throw it in the same hopper. Close enough for homebrewers.

Unwilling /= unable. Or not even thinking about it at all. Hanlon's Razor.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'm betting Crisp sets their mill to optimize for what the sell the most of--likely barley. Then when a batch of wheat comes along, they just throw it in the same hopper. Close enough for homebrewers.

My bet would be on Crisp setting their mills for their largest customers who are buying pre-milled malt, having large brew rigs.
Definitely not optimized for (small) homebrewing systems.

I also doubt breweries milling small-kernel malt such as wheat, oat, rye, etc. on a reduced gap-size mill either.

 

[DuncB]

Don't rely on the gauge for your mill,
Check your crush every time.
Grains really vary in size!

 

[Indian_villager]

There is also glucabuster. I have a bottle and I have yet to try it on a hef or anything but will report back if I remember. https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-glucabuster-placeholder.html

 

[wdavis2003]

I'm at my wits end here

Sounds like a recurring issue. Do you always get your ingredients from Morebeer? Obviously, if you source elsewhere and still have the issue, it ain't the crush. I've never had an issue with efficiency with Morebeer kits.

There is also glucabuster. I have a bottle and I have yet to try it on a hef or anything but will report back if I remember. https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-glucabuster-placeholder.html

I used it for the first time on my last brew and I came in 8 points higher than estimated OG. More testing needs to be done but I might need to adjust my grain bills when using this product.

 

[doug293cz]

There is also glucabuster. I have a bottle and I have yet to try it on a hef or anything but will report back if I remember. https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-glucabuster-placeholder.html

I doubt glucabuster would be effective at improving the conversion of uncracked grain kernels. If you have a decent crush, then glucabuster can definitely improve mash yields (all else being equal.)

Brew on

 

[DuncB]

There is also glucabuster. I have a bottle and I have yet to try it on a hef or anything but will report back if I remember. https://www.morebeer.com/products/cellarscience-glucabuster-placeholder.html

I use glucanase same enzyme in all my brews. 2.5 to 5ml per 5kg of grain.
Works well and doesn't take the volume or absorbency of a load of hulls.

 

[Deric]

Recipe?

 

[DruBru]

Sounds like a recurring issue. Do you always get your ingredients from Morebeer? Obviously, if you source elsewhere and still have the issue, it ain't the crush. I've never had an issue with efficiency with Morebeer kits.

This was my first all grain kit from morebeer, my setup typically sees lower than expected brewhouse efficiency, but this was the first time that the numbers were off by this much.

Recipe?

https://www.morebeer.com/products/german-hefeweizen-grain-beer-brewing-kit-5-gallons.html

 

[dmtaylor]

Ooh baby, 60% undercrushed wheat. Yeah that'll do it.