Loss of Diastatic Power from Toasting Malt

[AlexKay]

Sugar Creek has a London Brown diastatic malt on their website. It's been listed as "coming soon" for a while. I dropped them a line to figure out when soon might be.

 

[Dland]

My fermentation appears to be stalled at 1.027, that's 50% attenuation from OG 1.053. Dagnabbit. I'll have to think about how best to resolve. I really don't like the idea of adding some type of enzymes, but now I have to give it more serious thought. Temperature has been stable at 64-65 F so that's not the issue. I just didn't mash long enough for the very low amount of enzymes that were in there.... enough to convert starch to dextrin, but not enough to convert dextrin to simple sugar. I'm disappointed.

Just wondering, is it possible the toasting rendered some of the sugars less or unfermentable?

I'm actually not clear on this, has been my understanding that malts like dark crystal add unfermentables. Was not aware that longer mash (with enzyme activity) would make un fermentable sugars fermentable, but I guess maybe the betas do this if strong enough.

 

[dmtaylor]

Just wondering, is it possible the toasting rendered some of the sugars less or unfermentable?

I'm actually not clear on this, has been my understanding that malts like dark crystal add unfermentables. Was not aware that longer mash (with enzyme activity) would make un fermentable sugars fermentable, but I guess maybe the betas do this if strong enough.

Yes, you are onto something. Crystal malts add unfermentables because the enzymes are active for part of the caramelization process but then killed off. I do believe I experienced the same phenomenon in my own beer.

Even alpha will break down most of the less fermentable sugars into more fermentable sugars. Beta is helpful, but if the beta breaks down, alpha can do a lot as well, especially if given extra time (such as an overnight mash).

FWIW… my experimentally home-toasted beer ended up very tasty and well carbonated over time. I added like a half a Beano tablet to it, and the idea worked. Beano is definitely not a cure-all, but… in THIS case, it was helpful.

 

[TheMadKing]

How are you heating your mash when doing stepped mashes? You do stepped mashes, don't you?

I use an electric HERMS system, so I open my recirculation pump up full flow and set my HLT temperature to about 3-4 degrees above where I want the mash to settle and let the mash temp rise as fast as it can.

 

[TheMadKing]

Yeah, I was addressing to MadKing...

I used 10% in this recipe. I think dropping it down to 5-7% might be better

 

[Miraculix]

I use an electric HERMS system, so I open my recirculation pump up full flow and set my HLT temperature to about 3-4 degrees above where I want the mash to settle and let the mash temp rise as fast as it can.

OK, so you are not heating a biab setup via direct heat as I do... I thought maybe I am scorching the grain a little bit and create the marzipan flavour that way, but if you get it by just heating the liquid this is not a valid idea anymore.

 

[TheMadKing]

OK, so you are not heating a biab setup via direct heat as I do... I thought maybe I am scorching the grain a little bit and create the marzipan flavour that way, but if you get it by just heating the liquid this is not a valid idea anymore.

Yeah assuming we are describing the same flavor at all lol

My money is on ester content from sugars and english yeasts. I only notice it in malty English ales, never american ales or german lagers

 

[Miraculix]

Yeah assuming we are describing the same flavor at all lol

My money is on ester content from sugars and english yeasts. I only notice it in malty English ales, never american ales or german lagers

Interesting. I also do not have this problem when brewing mmmmurican pales. But I must say, I often use Nottingham for APAs, so that would be English, but low ester English.

I mean, I mainly brew bitters, but I also mainly witness these marzipan offs within bitters and a lot of them get some invert.

Maybe the esters are kind of a precursor for the marzipan and then later it only needs a hint of oyxygen to blossom? No idea tbh.... it looks like oxygen really plays a role.