Looking for suggestions for an alternative to USO5

[Gilbert Spinning Horse]

I concentrate on making beers in the style of British golden ales, light and hoppy pale ales, and I always use US05 dry yeast. I started out with an all grain setup about 4 years ago and have been dabbling with different aspects of the brew but not really touched on yeast as yet. I live in Brazil so access to liquid yeast is really limited, but I wonder if anyone can suggest an alternative dry yeast to maybe up the fruitiness of the beer.

 

[ong]

I concentrate on making beers in the style of British golden ales, light and hoppy pale ales, and I always use US05 dry yeast. I started out with an all grain setup about 4 years ago and have been dabbling with different aspects of the brew but not really touched on yeast as yet. I live in Brazil so access to liquid yeast is really limited, but I wonder if anyone can suggest an alternative dry yeast to maybe up the fruitiness of the beer.

Safale S-04 would be a classic dry English yeast, and should be as widely available as US-05. Nottingham is also widely available (but to me is a little crisper, more lager-like, hop-forward). Your other bet would be to obtain a liquid strain you like and keep a culture going.

 

[thehaze]

S-04 is good, but I like Nottingham and Windsor much more.

Nottingham is genetically, a multi-strain yeast, and it's Like 70% Lager and the rest is Ale. Nottingham flocculates very well ( than US-05 ), ferments faster and more agressive, attenuates anywhere between 77 and 84% ( recipe, mash temp. dependent ), it's clean, reliable, cleans fast and well after itself, and can be used for Pale Ales, IPAs, ESBs, Red/Amber Ales, Stouts, Porters, Black IPAs, etc.

Windsor is estery, and although not as complex as Fuller's, TT strains, etc. it's quite pleasent. It's a low attenuator and flocculator, but if conditioned in the bottle, it can become somewhat clear, but easily resuspended aggain. It ferments very fast and agressive. Fermentations with Windsor are done in 48 hours. It cleans well after itself. Remember with this yeast to mash low ( 64-64C ) and use sugar. You want anything between 4 and 10% sugar to help with the attenuation and get your numbers. Apparent attenuation - for me - is usually betwen 70 and 73%, which is OK. Can be used for a lot of styles as well. Works well in ESBs and Milk Stouts.

I combine these with good results.

 

[Qhrumphf]

If you're looking for a dry workhorse alternative to US-05 then Notty would be the one to pick.

I don't much care for Windsor. For how annoying it can be (see above about mash temps and sugar to avoid underattenuation), I don't think the character justifies the nuisance. S-04 is good, and if you want fruit-forward and English, it'd be a good choice as well.

 

[lump42]

I've been playing with some of the Mangrove Jack strains. There M36 Liberty Bell has worked well for me for hoppy beers. They also have a M44 West Coast yeast, but they claim it as a clean fermenting strain.

 

[kh54s10]

US-05 is what I use for American Pale ales and IPAs. S-04 is considered more of a British style ale yeast. I too like Nottingham.

Windsor is the only yeast that has ever stalled on me. It stopped at 1.030. I raised the temperature and swirled the yeast a bit to get back into suspension. In another week it went to 1.014.

I would look at some Mangrove Jack's yeasts if they are available.

 

[cefiro355]

I've been using White Labs Best of Both Worlds (S-04/S-05 Blend) for around 5 brews (washing) and I really like it. Believe it's a Morebeer exclusive.

 

[Big Monk]

BRY-97

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I would look at some Mangrove Jack's yeasts if they are available

Yakima Valley Hops (under the brewing ingredients menu item) and Rite Brew are two sources that I use for MJ dry yeast.

 

[estricklin]

Crossmyloof yeast has been getting pretty popular, and I've been using it a lot lately. I bet you can find a supplier on ebay that ships to Brazil, prices are good too. You may be interested in their "Real Ale" strain most of all. I've heard some speculate that these yeast may be the same source as MJ, but I cannot confirm this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Home-Brew-...hash=item3d46e78691:m:mDDFp2zuleaRjJL03uuYdow

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I've heard some speculate that these yeast may be the same source as MJ, but I cannot confirm this.

For those interested in the business side of dry yeast products, this topic has been discussed in some detail in a couple of the recent MJ yeast review posts here at HBT.

These two articles on yeast DNA (http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4000 and http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4030 may be of interest (both in general and for those who wish to chase a source of the speculation). If one digs around in the comments of this link, http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4030, one should be able to find links to stories that may be a 'relative' source of the speculation.

For those curious enough, there appears to be enough information to construct tentative mappings of similar dry yeast across the various dry yeast labs; although it may take a lot of triangle tests to move the mapping from speculative to plausible. If nothing else, these triangle tests could be used as proof that research doesn't need to be dry and tasteless .

 

[Homergah]

Another vote for Windsor. Gently swirl fermentor on day 3.

 

[couchsending]

Blend some s04 with your 05 or some Windsor with 05.

I think Nottingham is gross. S04 is kid of weird on it’s own especially above 66*, tart and bready.

Blending can give you some more complexity but the 05 will still dominate.

Bry-97/05 could be interesting too.

 

[Druman07]

I agree with Windsor if you want to try something different.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I live in Brazil so access to liquid yeast is really limited, but I wonder if anyone can suggest an alternative dry yeast to maybe up the fruitiness of the beer.

It's worth emphasising the Brazil thing, which I suspect some people haven't noticed. I know it wasn't the question, but I'd throw in the idea of getting some kveik, which should be hardy enough to survive shipping, at least away from the summer - Voss or Hornindal? You don't say what your fermentation setup is like, but I'd imagine that heat-tolerant yeast can't be a bad thing in Brazil?

If you are restricted to dry yeast then blending them can give you some options that are more interesting - see the Tree House thread where one of the top NEIPA breweries seems to be using S-04/T-58/WB-06 in a ratio of around 90:8:2, but something like 90:10 S-04:T-58 might be worth a shot, or even replace the T-58 with bread yeast. Blending can also help improve brewing performance - Windsor followed by some Nottingham at high krausen will allow it to drop out with the Notty.

It's also worth mentioning the new Lallemand New England yeast, a version of Conan. They've had viability problems so have only released it in 500g packs so far, but some retailers have been breaking those packs. In theory it should work for traditional British styles.

I've been playing with some of the Mangrove Jack strains. There M36 Liberty Bell has worked well for me for hoppy beers. They also have a M44 West Coast yeast, but they claim it as a clean fermenting strain.

MJ don't make their own, they seem to only repack others so it's a question of matching them up. Given the antipodean connection I wonder if M36 is Mauri 514/Coopers, M44 may be Lallemand BRY-97, M42 may be Nottingham and so on. They have pretty poor distribution in the US but are pretty easy to get elsewhere in the world, in the Commonwealth at least.

Crossmyloof yeast has been getting pretty popular, and I've been using it a lot lately. I bet you can find a supplier on ebay that ships to Brazil, prices are good too. You may be interested in their "Real Ale" strain most of all. I've heard some speculate that these yeast may be the same source as MJ, but I cannot confirm this.

My suspicion is that they may have started with MJ but supposedly they get them from Germany now which has led some people to http://brauwerkstatt.com/ I've not gone through and tried to match them up.

Gozdawa in Poland should also get a mention I guess - you see them on Amazon etc.

 

[Gilbert Spinning Horse]

Just thought I'd come back and report my findings. I split a batch between US05 and T58 and was quite amazed by the difference. I should mention that the recipe is something that I have spent the past 3 or so years perfecting, so I'm well used to the results of the US05 and this time was no different. I really thought I had my British Golden Ale as good as I was going to get it with Citra, Idaho7 and Calente hops. That said the T58 version blew me away. Straight away I noticed a real difference in the aroma, with the T58 being far more fruity. The flavour was slightly less shockingly different but still obviously more fruity, with flavours of melon, pineapple and possibly grape over and above the punch of the hops. I really was staggered by the difference between the two yeasts and very pleasantly so at that. I think my BGA made a leap into something really special that I would be confident to enter into a comp. Thanks for the previous comments guys. Cheers.

 

[kh54s10]

I get peppery and spicy from T-58. I use it more as a Belgian style. I did brew an ale with Spaghetti squash. It's peppery flavor and the peppery flavor of the squash was absolutely amazing. I used Nugget for bittering and Sterling for flavor. Spicy floral are it's character. Substitute for Saaz.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

While T-58 has a little peppery spice on its own, it seems to be really active in biotransformation of hop compounds if given the right hops to work on.

 

[mediant]

Speaking of biotransformation, this research kind of confirms that T-58 has higher ability compared to US-05 - β-Glucoside Hydrolyzing Enzymes from Ale and Lager Strains of Brewing Yeast
What's interesting, 1056 has even higher extracellular β-glucosidase levels, on par with S-04. Considering this, if looking for biotransformation with dry yeast I would try S-04.

In addition, Lallemand published BIOTRANSFORMATION guide under BRY-97 and New England's TDS sections, which is not surprising, as these yeasts also express highest β-glucosidase levels.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

We really need a different word for the release of compounds bound up as glycosides, as aside from the fact that even "good" Saccharomyces don't produce that much glucosidases by the standards of other yeasts, I was thinking of the transformation of hop compounds into different flavours - geraniol into linalool and all that kind of stuff. I keep meaning to explore it some more, but T-58 really changes the flavour of Chinook for example, from grapefruit into something more limey.

 

[Zolet]

Speaking of biotransformation, this research kind of confirms that T-58 has higher ability compared to US-05 - β-Glucoside Hydrolyzing Enzymes from Ale and Lager Strains of Brewing Yeast
What's interesting, 1056 has even higher extracellular β-glucosidase levels, on par with S-04. Considering this, if looking for biotransformation with dry yeast I would try S-04.

In addition, Lallemand published BIOTRANSFORMATION guide under BRY-97 and New England's TDS sections, which is not surprising, as these yeasts also express highest β-glucosidase levels.

Mediant, link for the b-glocosidase paper is brooken and I'm not being able to find another source to download it (there are some websites but download only by request).

Do you have the pdf file? Would mind sharing it?