Looking for Lost Abbey - Judgment Day Clone

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

One of the bests beers hands down but has anyone been able to clone? I would really like to have that recipe in an all grain version.

Thanks in advance

 

[artyboy]

I found this on their website. It shouldn't be too tough to figure out from here.

OG 1.092 TG 1.014 10.5% ABV

Malts- Two Row, Wheat, Medium and Dark English Crystal, Special B and Chocolate Malt.
Hops- Challenger and East Kent Golding
Yeast- Proprietary Belgian Ale Strain
Adjuncts- Dextrose and Raisins

 

[dukeredhair]

did anyone ever try this? I am with the OP in that this might be one of my favorite beers on the planet. I would love to get a batch going so it can be ready by winter.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

Actually I have 11gallons in the basement and it has been fermenting for about 3 weeks. The recipe I came up with was derived from reading this post https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/cuvee-de-tomme-clone-group-project- 142449/朖癉⁳稊̡


I did not understand the hop selection but I went with it to see how close it really was. My recipe is as follows;

Recipe: Judgement Day Clone
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Boil Size: 13.97 gal
Estimated OG: 1.100 SG
Estimated Color: 17.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
14.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 31.82 %
14.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 31.82 %
6.00 lb White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 13.64 %
3.00 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 6.82 %
3.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.82 %
2.00 lb Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
0.50 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 1.14 %
2.00 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 33.9 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
16.00 oz Raisin (Boil 120.0 min) Misc
1.50 lb Turbinado (10.0 SRM) Sugar 3.41 %
2 Pkgs Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 42.50 lb
----------------------------
Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
30 min Protein Rest Add 53.13 qt of water at 129.3 F 122.0 F
60 min Saccharification Heat to 154.0 F over 15 min 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess I will see in a couple more weeks but I did split this in to 2 carboys and I am trying one with WLP545 and WLP510. Both platinum strains.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

Not close to the real thing. I am working on a newer formulation that I think just might hit it dead on.

 

[XSnXS]

Any luck dialing that one in?

 

[yellat]

I have something that has turned out very similar. Sorry, i'm too lazy to type it up here. Here is my hopville link:

http://hopville.com/recipe/630580/belgian-specialty-ale-recipes/raisonable-investor

 

[yellat]

Hi, I brewed something that came out similar to this. I'll do a side by side test, but i think the wheat would be a great addition:
http://hopville.com/recipe/630580/belgian-specialty-ale-recipes/raisonable-investor

 

[mhenry41h]

Are the fundamental ingredients to dark strong ales. Clearly Lost Abbey uses these ingredients so it make it much tougher to figure out! I'd try keeping to a base of American and not English 2 row, and be very restraint with the specialty malts. The best of the best authentic Belgians make these with incredibly simple grist bills and let the dark sugar layer in the complexity.

 

[Pugalicious]

Has anyone nailed this yet? I absolutely LOVE this beer. It'd be awesome to brew at home.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

My next attempt is going to be this recipe.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Home Brewing Software
Recipe: Judgement Day Clone V2
Brewer: Dave D
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 15.48 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.48 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 11.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.101 SG
Estimated Color: 18.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 22.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 77.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 84.6 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.20 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
27 lbs 2 row malt (1.8 SRM) Grain 2 68.1 %
6 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 15.1 %
2 lbs Crystal Malt I - 45L (Thomas Fawcett) (4 Grain 4 5.0 %
2 lbs Dark Crystal Malt I - 85L (Thomas Fawcet Grain 5 5.0 %
8.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.3 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7 0.3 %
2 lbs Dextrose (Briess) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8 5.0 %
1.50 lb Raisin (Boil 120.0 mins) Flavor 9 -
2.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 10 19.6 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop 11 3.0 IBUs
1.50 lb Raisin (Boil 10.0 mins) Flavor 12 -
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 0.0 Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) [5000.00 Yeast 14 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 39 lbs 10.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 48.03 qt of water at 163.4 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun, , 4.12gal, 4.12gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------
First run not enough raisin. Trying 3 lbs this run.

Created with BeerSmith 2 - BeerSmith Home Brewing Software, Recipes, Podcast and Blog
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[CharlieSD]

LB Brew, what temp did you ferment this, and how did it turn out? I have only hade Judgement Day from the brewery and on tap, and it does not have a very strong Belgian yeast influence. I think this is why I like it so much. I am not a fan of the typical estery Belgian tones.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

With so many beers in brew queue, I have not had a chance to make this one yet. My last attempt did not have as much ester production. I think it was because I kept it close to 65° during the entire fermentation process. Even if you do get it close to the 70° mark, I think it wont hurt since the raisin flavor is prominent.

I think I am going to put a bit of raisin puree in the secondary as well with this. I am changing it to 1 lb @ 60 mins and 1 lb @ 5 mins and then 1 lb in secondary. this is for 11 gallons.

My next attempt is July 14th on this. Stay tuned to see if this recipe is close.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

This time got the mash temp right at 152. Got a sudden heat problem in the basement so I hope it turns out ok.

 

[CharlieSD]

I started this with 1.25 lbs of raisins (5 gal batch) on July 8th.....fermenting at 61-68 degrees. It's been so hot lately, my freezers have a pretty wide range. I checked today, and there is still activity, I racked to secondary on the 15th, and it was down to 1.035. I have a local club competition on Sept 15th.....so I will let this one age for a while...maybe drop the temp to 50s in a week or so.

 

[ktblunden]

Looking forward to hearing both your results. Judgement Day is my favorite quad and it would be really nice to be able to get close in replicating it.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

Results so far.

Started 7-14-2012 22.5 Brix (1.094)
Current 8-5-2012 12 Brix (1.021)

A little sweet right now but I am going to start spinning the fermenter to wake the yeast up a bit. Raisin flavor not too prominent but going to add golden and regular raisins in to the secondary. Tastes very close though and I think if I can get the fg down a bit more this will be dead on.

Final recipe as follows

Recipe: Judgement Day Clone V2
Brewer: Dave Daniels
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 14.73 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.48 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 11.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.094 SG
Estimated Color: 19.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 24.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.5 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.20 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
25 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Rahr) (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 68.3 %
5 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 13.7 %
2 lbs Crystal Malt I - 45L (Thomas Fawcett) (4 Grain 4 5.5 %
2 lbs Dark Crystal Malt I - 85L (Thomas Fawcet Grain 5 5.5 %
8.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.4 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7 0.3 %
2 lbs Dextrose (Briess) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8 5.5 %
3.00 oz Challenger [5.60 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 9 21.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop 10 3.1 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 11 -
1.00 lb Raisin (Boil 10.0 mins) Flavor 12 -
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 0.0 Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) [5000.00 Yeast 14 -
1.00 lb Raisin (Secondary 14.0 days) Flavor 15 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 36 lbs 10.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 44.28 qt of water at 163.4 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun, , 4.03gal, 4.03gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------
Dry raisin with half gold and half dark raisin for about 2 weeks.

Start - 22.5 brix
8/5 - 12 brix
8/12 - xx brix

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

Results so far.

Started 7-14-2012 22.5 Brix (1.094)
Current 8-5-2012 12 Brix (1.021)

A little sweet right now but I am going to start spinning the fermenter to wake the yeast up a bit. Raisin flavor not too prominent but going to add golden and regular raisins in to the secondary. Tastes very close though and I think if I can get the fg down a bit more this will be dead on.

Final recipe as follows

Recipe: Judgement Day Clone V2
Brewer: Dave Daniels
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 14.73 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.48 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 11.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 11.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.094 SG
Estimated Color: 19.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 24.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.5 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.20 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
25 lbs Pale Malt - 2 Row (Rahr) (3.5 SRM) Grain 2 68.3 %
5 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 3 13.7 %
2 lbs Crystal Malt I - 45L (Thomas Fawcett) (4 Grain 4 5.5 %
2 lbs Dark Crystal Malt I - 85L (Thomas Fawcet Grain 5 5.5 %
8.0 oz Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 6 1.4 %
2.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 7 0.3 %
2 lbs Dextrose (Briess) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8 5.5 %
3.00 oz Challenger [5.60 %] - Boil 75.0 min Hop 9 21.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop 10 3.1 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 11 -
1.00 lb Raisin (Boil 10.0 mins) Flavor 12 -
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 0.0 Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) [5000.00 Yeast 14 -
1.00 lb Raisin (Secondary 14.0 days) Flavor 15 -


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 36 lbs 10.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 44.28 qt of water at 163.4 F 152.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 3 steps (Drain mash tun, , 4.03gal, 4.03gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------
Dry raisin with half gold and half dark raisin for about 2 weeks.

Start - 22.5 brix
8/5 - 12 brix
8/12 - xx brix

 

[CharlieSD]

Mine looks like it got stuck at 1.028. Obviously too sweet, and for a four week old beer, seems very young- no flavor meld at all. The color is a little light...but very close, maybe a little different grain source than beagle. Raisins are light, but there.....maybe more would help, but I would be afraid of getting the OG too high. I already was a little over efficient and hit 1.11 for my OG. This is my first Belgian so I was quite surprised to see that I had such a vigorous start to fermentation (with a large starter), and it still continued to bubble and have suspended yeast for the first two weeks. Even after racking to secondary, the yeast thinned out, but maintained a steady slow ferment, until it finally stopped after 3.5 weeks. I am thinking about hitting it with a champagne yeast to thin it out to a more reasonable FG, but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I may split the batch and oak one, and re pitch the other.
On a side not I made bread with the spent grains, 1/2 grain blended and half white flour...red wine yeast, dry and I threw in raisins as well as the other bread staples. It turned out really good. Flavor was much more synchronous than my beer so far.
I would say beagle has a great clone, I just screwed up the ferment cycle somehow.
Cheers.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

Good luck Charlie. I know the feeling on trying to clone this thing. I have brewed this at least three times before this attempt. Each time something new and bad happened. First two times fermentation stalled at about 1.040 but I also was overshooting on sg. This attempt was keyed as close as I could get to my average efficiency. This one I made ramped the starter up to a ten gallon batch of starter beer at 1.040 and cold crashed. Had a very large amount of yeast for this. Mine still slowed down a lot after three weeks. Try warming everything up to about 75° and rousing the yeast every day. If you take it down seven more points you will be at 80% attenuation and 12% abv. That is much stronger that the original but the esters from the yeast will hide that alcohol a bit. Also dry raisin the beer with pureed raisins. My hope is that it gives that great original Judgment Day kick.

Cheers

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I seem to recall reading that they toss in the raisin at flame out, but I could be wrong.

 

[CharlieSD]

I seem to recall reading that they toss in the raisin at flame out, but I could be wrong.

I boiled my raisins for 60 minutes, chopped up in hops bags. I tasted what I pulled out and it was like flavorless jelly beans. Definitely got all the sugar out. Probably would get the same result with 15 minutes.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

I think Reverse is right but I believe they add so many (Pound per gallon) raisins there is still flavor left after fermentation. I noticed that if I added them at flameout, most of the flavor from the raisins was lost after a month of fermenting. I am going to secondary some raisin to try to get the flavor back in there. When I sampled this last week I could barely detect any raisin and I put them in at last 5 min. Overall though the taste was what I remember without that sort of winy, raisin y flavor. I destroyed 3 previous batches but I think this one has really set the tone for the right batch.

 

[HeavyKettleBrewing]

I think Reverse is right but I believe they add so many (Pound per gallon) raisins there is still flavor left after fermentation. I noticed that if I added them at flameout, most of the flavor from the raisins was lost after a month of fermenting. I am going to secondary some raisin to try to get the flavor back in there. When I sampled this last week I could barely detect any raisin and I put them in at last 5 min. Overall though the taste was what I remember without that sort of winy, raisin y flavor. I destroyed 3 previous batches but I think this one has really set the tone for the right batch.

About one year ago I had read a write up on Lost Abbey. The article mentioned how raisins were torched or broiled before adding to the boil/fermenter. The particular style was not mentioned and the article was more an homage to innovation at Lost Abbey/Port Brewing. Hope this might be of some help.

 

[LuckyBeagleBrewing]

Ok tonight I have been at 1.014 for a few days. I think I am done with primary. Rousing the yeast did the trick for bringing it down. The raisin flavor is almost completely gone so tomorrow I transfer this to secondary with the puree. As the base beer goes, I think it is spot on. Hopefully after 7 days on raisins I have a winner.

I think the key to this is the caramel malts. Just the small sample I pulled for testing had that sort of chewiness that makes this beer great. I have to brew this again soon just to have many spares.

For those of you trying to make this. I hope it turns out this good for you. Please let me know.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

About one year ago I had read a write up on Lost Abbey. The article mentioned how raisins were torched or broiled before adding to the boil/fermenter. The particular style was not mentioned and the article was more an homage to innovation at Lost Abbey/Port Brewing. Hope this might be of some help.

Wouldn't surprise me. Some of the recipes for Lost Abbey beers talk about caramelizing them with port. So there might be something more to the raisins than just tossing in plain ol' raisins.

 

[ao125]

I might have to try this in the near future. We get a ton of really good beer in the Washington DC area, but hardly ever any Lost Abbey.

 

[ao125]

Wouldn't surprise me. Some of the recipes for Lost Abbey beers talk about caramelizing them with port. So there might be something more to the raisins than just tossing in plain ol' raisins.

I made a beer with dates last year, and I had to do a bit of cooking with the pureed date paste to get it to the flavor profile I was after.

 

[CharlieSD]

So, I have given up on this round. I think I sparged too high, after repitching the fg didn't budge. I whiskey oaked it to try to counter the sweet a little, and it's not a bad beer, just not right. I think it's all due to my technique, so I will probably try this again later after using the same yeast on some lower gravity beers.

 

[sfrisby]

The article mentioned how raisins were torched or broiled before adding to the boil/fermenter.

This.

There is a YouTube video out there of it being made at the brewery. They take a flamethrower to the raisins before adding the beer.