long time in a ferm bucket

[SWAMPER]

Question did a P/M about a month ago and I still use a fermentation bucket not a carboy just have not had time to bottle it and hope to get to it this week, I know the buckets can leak do you think it’s still good being in a ale pail for over a month ?

 

[greeneyed]

Yep...234.

 

[TipsyDragon]

keeping the beer on yeast for more than a month isn't recommended. i don't think anything has gone wrong because of that but the longer you let it sit the more you risk autolisis. its probably still good. only thing i can say at this point is to prime, bottle, and taste. if anything has gone wrong you cant fix it now.

 

[Revvy]

Many of us leave our beers a month in primary anyway, and skip secondary all together unless we are adding fruit, oak or dry hopping.. There's a ton of threads on here about the subject just search "long primary" or "No Secondary" for all the reasons why.

And since I use buckets mostly, there's never been an issue with a month in one.

Many have left their beer for up to 6 months in primary with no ill effects either...I personally would only go as far a 6 weeks in primary. And then straight to bottle. If I got the time to rack to secondary, then I can squeeze another 30 minutes onto that time and just bottle.

That whole "Oxygen permeability" of bucket argument has been pretty much disproven , for the time we're talking about anyway, so it should not be a caveat and taken off the table.

The amount has been proven to be as negligable as any other container, and more than likely was propaganda by the glass industry. The same argument HAS been made about better bottles as well, and few of us believe that either.

You have to remember that there is co2 blanketing your beer and pushing out. So if there's co2 pushing out, there's nothing getting in.

We're not talking month and months like wine makers (though some more than likely do leave their wine in buckets to little effect) we're talking a month or 6 weeks at most for beer.

 

[BargainFittings]

My experience is it will be fine at 4-5 weeks in primary. At 2 months you will notice changes in the beer depending on the temperature its at. If you get lazy then drop the temp as low as you can to drop the yeast out until you can bottle / keg it.

 

[Revvy]

keeping the beer on yeast for more than a month isn't recommended. i don't think anything has gone wrong because of that but the longer you let it sit the more you risk autolisis. its probably still good. only thing i can say at this point is to prime, bottle, and taste. if anything has gone wrong you cant fix it now.

*sigh*

Here we go again.....

Tipsy, tipsy tipsy, not this autloysis boogeyman again..... People have successfully had their beer in primary for upwards of 6 months with no issues....

You will find that many of us leave our beers in primary for 3-4 weeks (or more) and only secondary if we are adding fruit or oak, or to dry hop (though many of us dry hop in primary now as well)....and we have found our beer vastly improved by letting the beer stay in contact with the yeast.

There's been a big shift in brewing consciousness in the last few years where many of us believe that yeast is a good thing, and besides just fermenting the beer, that they are fastidious creatures who go back and clean up any by products created by themselves during fermentation, which may lead to off flavors.

Rather than the yeast being the cause of off flavors, it is now looked at by many of us, that they will if left alone actually remove those off flavors, and make for clearer and cleaner tasting beers.

Even John Palmer talks about this in How To Bew;

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

John Palmer

As a final note on this subject, I should mention that by brewing with healthy yeast in a well-prepared wort, many experienced brewers, myself included, have been able to leave a beer in the primary fermenter for several months without any evidence of autolysis.

People have left it as much as six months. Autolysis is a myth for homebrewers.

Even when Palmer is talking about it, he's talking about it in terms of LAGERS not ales. Most people get so freaked out about in reading Palmer, that they don't notice it is in the Lager chapter, nor do they notice the caveat at the end of the section that I posted above.

I still believe that POSSIBLY autolysis WAS a concern to homebrewers 20-30 years ago, when the yeast came in dry cakes, of dubious heritage and came across from where homebrewing was legalized in the hot cargo holds of ships and may have sat for months in terrible conditioned...In other words was unhealthy to begin with.

And therefore may have crapped out and made for nastiness, (and also was prone to stick fermentation as well.) and tales of it just continued to perpetuate over time, even though yeasts are much more healthy and fresh, and more is understood about them nowaday....people gravitate to the negative and fear and still perpetuate those worries...over and over and over....

And I still maintain that as much as I like Palmer, he contributed to the hysteria.....I mean noone but me seems to notice that that section on the scary autolysis appears in the chapter on lagering. He is not talking about it with ales...or beers in general..just lagers..because flaws are more perceptable in lagers...since in essence most commercial lagers are tasteless...anything would stand out..

and I think most new brewers have crapped themselves at the mere thought long before the notice the closer to the section I mentioned earlier.

This is where the most up to date brewing wisdom and ideas can be found...In fact a lot of stuff has been started on here, and made it into byo or zymurgy or podcasts...in fact BYO DID a piece on no secondary/long primary, along with the BASIC BREWING PODCAST and even they said that there were no issues/harm with doing it and in some beers it did actually improve the flavor and clarity. And I believe that really WAS influenced by the discussion we have had for the last couple years on here.

So why don't we leave that chestnut out of this discussion.......

 

[SporkD2]

Just left my belgian strong for almost 2 months, moved it over to the carboy for bulk aging and good god did it taste good.

 

[SWAMPER]

ok makes me feel better now, thought that the bucket may let air in after sitting so long

 

[craigd]

My saison sat in a bucket primary for almost 5 months. No detectable (by me, YMMV) autolysis or oxidation. I'm sure there are other factors including the strength of covering flavors and type of yeast but so far I have not had an issue with long primaries in buckets. I'd probably not do that for a light lager though just on the off-chance it could cause an issue.

 

[OLDBREW]

All you have to do is put some idophor solution in a hdpe plastic bucket for a while to see that this plastic is permeable. The color doesn't rinse right off.

The other thing that makes me un-easy is these brewers doing no chill ,and using the hdpe plastic buckets as cooling vessels/fermenters.

High Density Polyethylene has high tensile strength and high resistance to chemical solvents. It may withstand temperatures as low as -60 degrees Fahrenheit and as high as 180 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

[Revvy]

All you have to do is put some idophor solution in a hdpe plastic bucket for a while to see that this plastic is permeable. The color doesn't rinse right off.

How is staining a bucket or any plastic with iodine the same as oxygen barrier permeability?

 

[TipsyDragon]

i believe the theory is that if there are microscopic pits the idophor can soak into those pits may actually be holes that go through to the outside. personally i don't believe this to be true. all the staining means is that the idophor is bonding with the plastic and not washing off. if anything the idophor staining would plug some of the microscopic holes in the surface of the plastic.

 

[OLDBREW]

The wine industry purposely uses the hdpe 2 tanks for their Gas Permeability. US Plastic should have information on HDPE 2 and the Gas Permeability numbers. They should give you the volume of oxygen per atmosphire over a time period . Another words an analysis like; 58 cc oxygen @ 1 atmosphire of pressure, in 24 hours time, per thickness of the material.

Tipsey,
Yes.. I do believe it to have some porosity. You are probably right about the idophor coating plugging up those holes

 

[Mirage]

We left our IPA in the bucket for around 4 months and then dry hopped for another few weeks. It is our best beer yet!!

 

[Beezer94]

so if a plastic bucket is "Gas Permeable" than wouldn't the higher than standard pressure in the bucket mean it is CO2 leaving not oxygen coming in?

 

[Revvy]

so if a plastic bucket is "Gas Permeable" than wouldn't the higher than standard pressure in the bucket mean it is CO2 leaving not oxygen coming in?

See that's one of those people who perpetuate the whole o2 permeability myth seem to forget. The whole cushion of co2 that is pushing out, AND more importantly protecting our beer.

That whole "Oxygen permeability" of bucket argument has been pretty much disproven , for the time we're talking about anyway, so it should not be a caveat and taken off the table.

The amount has been proven to be as negligable as any other container, and more than likely was propaganda by the glass industry. The same argument HAS been made about better bottles as well, and few of us believe that either.

And it's been handed down as "fact" just like autolysis, hsa and other boogeymen to brewers.

You have to remember that there is co2 blanketing your beer and pushing out. So if there's co2 pushing out, there's nothing getting in.

We're not talking month and months like wine makers (though some more than likely do leave their wine in buckets to little effect) we're talking a month or 6 weeks at most for beer.

Though as evidence has bore out over and over, including in this thread, the oxygen permeability issue, just like autolysis, is overrated.

If people want to continue to believe in fairy tales like that, fine...but they shouldn't be repeated over and over like "gospel."

 

[cappy]

I have only done 2 batches so far, but I have never racked to a secondary. I was given that advice from another brewer friend. I have just left it in my carboy until I'm ready to bottle. My chocolate cherry porter sat for a month and a half, cherries and all, before I bottled it. Tastes mighty fine now.

 

[OLDBREW]

We left our IPA in the bucket for around 4 months and then dry hopped for another few weeks. It is our best beer yet!!

IPA's and some oxidation go together like a glove on the hand that does fit(take that OJ). Old Real Ales also love a little oxidation.

 

[Mirage]

LOL, well, whatever happened, it was our first beer that I enjoy and will pick up over some store bought so I am pleased with it. We may decide to let our other beers sit for longer too. The whole sitting longer thing goes great my lazy/procrastination tendencies too!