long chain sugars/starch in sours

[TravisT]

I just listened to the new Sunday session where the brewer from flat tail brewing was talking about sour beers and different techniques when making sour beers. One technique that I had never heard befor was steeping some rolled oats in the wort when it is at 180 degrees, extracting the starches and not letting the enzymes convert them to sugars. Then the bugs would have something to chew on that the sac can't eat. Has anyone had success doing this?

 

[BootsyFlanootsy]

makes sense to me. seem to be many ways to skin the same cat if you ask me. you could also just mash a bit higher..

 

[tjBrewer]

I was listening to that episode too and it does sound interesting. Have to agree with bootsy though about the high mash temp to keep it simple and eliminate variables if you run into issues down the road. I've had good success with that.

You could always split your batch into two boil kettles if you have the capability and steep in one. See what benefits the oats contribute.

 

[emjay]

Some people just add maltodextrin which frankly sounds easier (though I go through the trouble of turbid mashing lambic, so I know it's not always about ease).

Also works for extract brewers who otherwise have to deal with whatever the fermentability of their extract happens to be.

 

[sweetcell]

the flat tail brewer's point was that starches are more complex than malto. malto will be broken down and digested too quickly by the brett, leaving nothing for the bacteria. starch, because of its complexity, will still be around in a few months when the bugs build up their population.

he also pointed out that today's malts, especially north american malts, have so much diastatic power that they start converting really quickly and that it doesn't really matter what temp you mash at - you're going to get the same thing at just about any temp. if you're using rahr or great western, temp doesn't really matter if you're mashing for more than 30 minutes.

even if you do use less converted continental malts and mash high, that will leave long-chain sugars - which are still less complex (i.e. more "digestible") than starch.

so his point was that there is no substitute for getting some starch in your sour brew. lambic brewers did this via a turbid mash, he he a simpler way of getting those starches: oatmeal. i have no experience with any of this so i'm not expressing an opinion here.... just relaying what the guest said.

 

[jrfehon]

Would the technique be then to bring your wort up to 180 degrees, after mashing but before the boil, then hold at 180 for 30 minutes and add a muslin bag with 8oz or so of oats? Sounds like a good idea.

 

[emjay]

The theory sounds easy enough but just about everyone here who tries it ends up with only a minimal difference once they check the change in gravity in order to determine %ABV, so make sure you do so as well, unless you don't mind giving someone a probable full-alcohol beer under false pretenses.

The temperatures required even if you do pull it off end up "cooking" the beer and changing its bitterness and overall character dramatically. Breweries get around this by lowering the boiling point itself (and thus not cooking the beer), by putting it in a vacuum. The negative relative pressures necessary to do this require industrial equipment, though.

There are plenty of times I'd love to enjoy a quality craft beer without the liability of most or all of the alcohol, so this is definitely a topic of interest for me, and I know others here who feel the exact same way. Unfortunately, the results homebrewers have had so far continue to be less than satisfactory, so the idea of a good NA beer remains a pipe dream for me.