LME starter... worth it?

[Sharpie]

My second brewkit comes tomorrow (Midwest's Autumn Amber Ale) and I'll be using a vial of White Labs California Ale Yeast. While White Labs says that I can just pitch directly from the vial, I know that it's usually better to make a starter.

I only have the LME that's coming in the kit and while I've found threads saying that you can use LME instead of DME, this would involve taking some from my kit. Is that not a big deal since the stuff is going to be added to the wort in the end anyway?

 

[Revvy]

Extract is extract, we just to use dry because it's easier to measure. But it doesn't matter, just that you make a starter.

 

[phuff7129]

Starters are great but I rarely do one unless my wort is going to be over 1.060. The Midwest Amber Ale kit is pretty low gravity at about 1.046 so you should not need a starter at all.

If you do a high gravity ale in the 1.065 on up then you should definitely do a starter. Just plan on ordering some dme with your kit or other ingredients. Also get some yeast nutrient.

Usually worts in the 1.060 - 1.068 I do a 1 liter starter which takes a cup of dme and 1/2 teaspoon of nutrient and then for 1.070 to 1.080 I do a 2 liter starter which is 2 cups dme and a teaspoon of nutrient.

 

[iron_city_ap]

With an estimated SG of 1.042-1.046 I wouldn't worry about making a starter. When you get estimated SGs over 1.050, then its time to think about starters. Also, if you recycle your yeast, definately make a starter.

In this case, if you do make a starter, it will take away from your finished product since you are reducing the amount used in your recipe. How much it takes away just depends on how much you use for the starter. It would have a lower ABV and not be as malty and more watery tasting.

That being said, look up on here and YouTube on how to recycle/wash yeast. Its EASY and will save you ALOT of money. Cali is a good workhorse yeast. You can use it for pretty much any style you make and it will save you $7 every time you brew.

 

[Revvy]

You guys do know that even mr malty recommends a starter for any beer above 1.030 don't you. Whether you choose to do one or not is up to you, but it IS recommended.

 

[iron_city_ap]

It wouldn't hurt anything by doing a starter, but the OP is talking about using the LME from the kit to make a starter. In this case I don't think its necessary, esp. if it means taking extract from the main body of the beer.

I recycle my yeast, so I always (at least almost always) try to make a starter. I'm only home 3 days/week so if I have to brew on my 1st day home, no time for a starter. If I'm making a lower gravity batch and using 'fresh' yeast I don't worry about it. I realize I have no idea how active the 'fresh' yeast is, but, so far, no duds. It might not be optimal, but it doesn't make the beer bad either.

 

[BrewKnurd]

In this case I don't think its necessary, esp. if it means taking extract from the main body of the beer.

If you pitch the whole starter, you haven't taken anything from the main beer. That extract still ends up there, just in its fermented form, which where it was going to end up anyways.

 

[eeverwine]

I've noticed fermentation to be much more vigorous when a starter is employed. It seems to me that a starter is always a good idea. I think maybe in this case you shouldn't bother only because you're removing some extract from the main beer. You won't hit your target OG if you use any of that. The beer will come out slightly weaker and possibly more bitter due to less sweetness for the hops to counteract.

I'd say save the starter for your next batch and buy some light DME to have on hand when the time comes.

 

[Revvy]

if you pitch the whole starter, you haven't taken anything from the main beer. That extract still ends up there, just in its fermented form, which where it was going to end up anyways. :d

+1

 

[eeverwine]

So it doesn't matter if you use extract from the main body of the beer? Is there really no difference between the fermented mini-wort in the starter and the fermented wort of the main beer?

Actually I think I answered my own question, cause the main wort hasn't fermented yet and the starter is going to go through it all anyways. I'm such a noob sometimes.

 

[iron_city_ap]

If you pitch the whole starter, you haven't taken anything from the main beer. That extract still ends up there, just in its fermented form, which where it was going to end up anyways.

If you and Revvy say so.... Its not that I doubt you guys, but I wouldn't do it. Its like I said before, it all depends on how much LME you take away, but, it would throw the OG off and the color (not that it is THAT important) would be slightly different. The FG would pretty much be the same. To each their own, but, I'd not worry about it and just get some DME, hold off brewing for a few days, and and keep the full kit for the beer.

 

[TheCatman]

I was about to make a thread asking the exact same question as the OP lol

I'd say save the starter for your next batch and buy some light DME to have on hand when the time comes.

This is probably what I'll do: pitch the vial as is for this first batch, and pick up some DME and make a starter for the next.

 

[BrewKnurd]

To each their own, but, I'd not worry about it and just get some DME, hold off brewing for a few days, and and keep the full kit for the beer.

Oh, make no mistake, this would be my preference as well.

 

[Sharpie]

Huzzah! Apparently there IS a store in the area that has homebrew supplies. I should be able to pick up some DME tomorrow. How do I know which DME to get/use?


Also, since the yeast starter gets added, how does the DME in there not throw off your readings? Am I right in assuming that there's not enough DME in a starter to really affect 5 gallons of wort?

 

[NineMilBill]

Yea I doubt a side by side comparison would produce any difference in taste over the course of 5+ gallons.

 

[phuff7129]

I don't know but I would think that a $7 vial of quality yeast should easily ferment a 5 gallon 1.046 wort. So let's assume that it can ferment a wort of that gravity. Why go through the trouble and expense of a starter?

 

[ndsgr]

I don't know but I would think that a $7 vial of quality yeast should easily ferment a 5 gallon 1.046 wort. So let's assume that it can ferment a wort of that gravity. Why go through the trouble and expense of a starter?

Yeast will ferment wort no matter what beer we are talking about, given you don't screw up really bad (pitching into the boil, for example). Beer is a fairly naturally occurring substance.

That said, yeast also doesn't care what your beer tastes like. You are going through all the trouble of making beer, why not make a starter? It's simple, cheap and is an easy way to test and make up for viability issues.

There is a ton of science to back up the claims of making starters, but if you choose not to, that's up to you. You'll still make beer.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

My second brewkit comes tomorrow (Midwest's Autumn Amber Ale) and I'll be using a vial of White Labs California Ale Yeast. While White Labs says that I can just pitch directly from the vial, I know that it's usually better to make a starter.

I only have the LME that's coming in the kit and while I've found threads saying that you can use LME instead of DME, this would involve taking some from my kit. Is that not a big deal since the stuff is going to be added to the wort in the end anyway?

The last time I went to the LBHW I bouthg an extra 3 LB bag of DME, popped it into an OXO canister right on the countertop between the sugar and the flour. Now I have all the starter material I need for the future. I believe using LME in a pinch is fine, but you are goiong to end up with a slightly lower OG than the kit calls for. In a pinch you can also use Malt Goya, which is a malt beverage sold in most grocery stores in the hispanic foods aisle.

 

[Balto]

You guys do know that even mr malty recommends a starter for any beer above 1.030 don't you. Whether you choose to do one or not is up to you, but it IS recommended.

I learned this last week from you! Use a starter.

 

[BrewKnurd]

The last time I went to the LBHW I bouthg an extra 3 LB bag of DME, popped it into an OXO canister right on the countertop between the sugar and the flour. Now I have all the starter material I need for the future. I believe using LME in a pinch is fine, but you are goiong to end up with a slightly lower OG than the kit calls for. In a pinch you can also use Malt Goya, which is a malt beverage sold in most grocery stores in the hispanic foods aisle.

I saved a few of the plastic LME containers from when I was buying extract kits from AHS and use those to store priming sugar and LME. Couldn't agree more about having DME around - always a good idea. Both for starters and if you need to make any adjustments mid brew day.

 

[ballsy]

If you pitch the whole starter, you haven't taken anything from the main beer. That extract still ends up there, just in its fermented form, which where it was going to end up anyways.

I found myself in this dilemma this past weekend. Ended up using some LME from the kit (3L starter so used 300ml LME). I did pitch ALL of the starter into the wort after cooled, and of course did not hit correct OG (supposed to be 1.065, ended up 1.07). Does this mean the taste will be different, or just mean the OG is different from using LME in starter but come out tasting the same? Should I have still hit the correct OG with adding the entire starter?

 

[ballsy]

Update...tasted after 2 wks in bottle and its best beer I've done thus far!