LME Extract Timing Results

[NewBrewer2025]

When I made my first extract kit a month ago (light golden ale), I discovered the impacts of adding all the extract at the beginning, which was a darker color and a caramelization type of flavor to it. Still tastes good, but wasn't what I was going for exactly.

So when I went to make my next batch of extract (vanilla cream ale), I decided to add the LME at different times. I added 30% at the beginning, and the remainder with about 5 minutes left in the boil.

These brews were supposed to be pretty similar SRMs, and you can see the results below. Also, after 7 days of fermenting, my vanilla ale has hit the FG (1.009), though I'm probably going to give it another week (I would do it Friday, but I'll be watching the NCAA Tournament).

The first one is the sample I pulled today on the cream ale, and the second one is my first batch of light golden ale. The first one also has a little darker lighting, so the color is even brighter. And I expect it to clear up a but more over the next week, which should make it look real nice.

Very happy I discovered this, and just wanted to put it out there for any other beginning brewers to see!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

This is interesting.

Can you clarify:

• is 'extract' DME or LME?
• which picture (left, right) is the 1st / 2nd batch?
• and recipes / brew day notes are always appreciated

Thanks.

 

[NewBrewer2025]

This is interesting.

Can you clarify:

• is 'extract' DME or LME?
• which picture (left, right) is the 1st / 2nd batch?
• and recipes / brew day notes are always appreciated

Thanks.

• The picture on the left is the second batch (cream ale) I brewed last week.
  • This batch was 3.3 lbs of golden light LME.
  • This is the batch where I split up extract additions. I also only did a 30-minute boil.
  • I added 1 lbs of LME at the beginning of the boil, and the remainder with 5 minutes left in the boil.
  • I also did a 2.5 gallon batch, full volume boil.
• The picture on the right is the first batch (golden light ale).
  • This batch was 3.3 lbs of golden light LME and 1 lbs of golden light DME.
  • I dumped all the extract in at the beginning of the boil.
  • This was a 5 gallon batch, where I started with 2.5 gallons, and then topped off to get to 5 gallons.

The two recipes are below. Let me know if you had any other questions!

The OG on this was actually 1.045, with a final gravity of 1.008. Not sure why it didn't calculate that correctly, though it did before I changed the Munich Malt to steeping.

This one came in exactly at 1.046, and the SG I just measured is 1.009, so I think Brewfather nailed this one.

 

[Bobby_M]

Maybe you already know this but Munich and Wheat malt are not steepable grains in the loose sense. You can perform a mini-mash where you limit the water amount to like 2 quarts per pound and hold it at 155F for 20 minutes and you'll get sugar out of it. If it goes in to a large amount of water and is steeped at less precise temperatures it may contribute starch haze.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

There is a wide range of Munch base malts. And, to make the topic of "Munich" malts more difficult, there are also "crystal" malts made from Munich malts.

For this discussion, it appears that we have a very specific Munich malt: Bairds Munich Malt (~ 5 SRM, ~ 40 diastatic power).

The OG on this was actually 1.045, with a final gravity of 1.008. Not sure why it didn't calculate that correctly, though it did before I changed the Munich Malt to steeping.

(link to some product information)

Many (but not all?) Munich (base) malts are typically "self-converting" - they have enough 'diastatic power" to convert their own starches into sugars.

1# Munich in 2.5 gal water is outside the normal bounds for a typical mash - but it may have been 'close enough' to do a reasonable conversion. Using Brewers Friend Mash Chemistry and Brewing Water Calculator and assuming a no mineral water, mash pH is well within range for a good conversion.

---

I may have a follow-up post on LME color. Both photos suggest that fresh LME was delivered (and brewed promptly).

I did notice that the picture on the right was a concentrated boil ("started with 2.5 gallons, and then topped off to get to 5 gallons." and the picture on the left was a full volume boil with late additions.

 

[NewBrewer2025]

There is a wide range of Munch base malts. And, to make the topic of "Munich" malts more difficult, there are also "crystal" malts made from Munich malts.

For this discussion, it appears that we have a very specific Munich malt: Bairds Munich Malt (~ 5 SRM, ~ 40 diastatic power).

View attachment 871218

(link to some product information)

Many (but not all?) Munich (base) malts are typically "self-converting" - they have enough 'diastatic power" to convert their own starches into sugars.

1# Munich in 2.5 gal water is outside the normal bounds for a typical mash - but it may have been 'close enough' to do a reasonable conversion. Using Brewers Friend Mash Chemistry and Brewing Water Calculator and assuming a no mineral water, mash pH is well within range for a good conversion.

---

I may have a follow-up post on LME color. Both photos suggest that fresh LME was delivered (and brewed promptly).

I did notice that the picture on the right was a concentrated boil ("started with 2.5 gallons, and then topped off to get to 5 gallons." and the picture on the left was a full volume boil with late additions.

Yes, I think both turned out pretty fine. The golden ale was a bit darker than I wanted, though I know that tends to happen with extract. But I think adding just some at the beginning, and then the remainder at the end helped even more with the cream ale. Also don’t really taste that caramel flavor as much, which I know can happen from the Maillard reactions with LME.

I also expect the cream ale will clear up a good amount more over the next week as well. My golden ale really cleared up a lot in the day once it hit FG.

 

[Duck&BarrelBrewing]

You may already know this, but the only thing I can think of that would give a caramelized flavor by adding the lme at the beginning versus throughout is to make sure that you move the pot off of the heat source when adding it or turn the heat source off while adding it.

The only thing I could think of that would produce that kind of flavor and darken the color would be if the lme is hitting the bottom of the boil kettle and the bottom has a direct flame or heat source that is caramelizing the LME. Lme is heavy and it sinks to the bottom fairly quickly and so you always add it and stir like mad. But one thing you definitely do is turn the heat off so it doesn't burn it / caramelize it.

Just a thought. Good looking beer though!
Happy brewing.

 

[NewBrewer2025]

You may already know this, but the only thing I can think of that would give a caramelized flavor by adding the lme at the beginning versus throughout is to make sure that you move the pot off of the heat source when adding it or turn the heat source off while adding it.

The only thing I could think of that would produce that kind of flavor and darken the color would be if the lme is hitting the bottom of the boil kettle and the bottom has a direct flame or heat source that is caramelizing the LME. Lme is heavy and it sinks to the bottom fairly quickly and so you always add it and stir like mad. But one thing you definitely do is turn the heat off so it doesn't burn it / caramelize it.

Just a thought. Good looking beer though!
Happy brewing.

I definitely did that, and the darker color / caramel-like flavor seems to be pretty common with LME.

From what I understand, the Maillard reaction, which occurs during the malting process and is responsible for caramelization, is more pronounced in LME because of the higher water content.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Concentrated boils can also be a cause of (slightly) darker that expected beer. Concentrated boils can also contribute undesirable flavors.

Perhaps the largest factor is probably poorly handled LME. Briess has an article from 2016 (link) that may be helpful once the LME arrives. Beyond that, one needs to trust the supply chain to ship quality product (and refund you if the extra light LME is red at the start of the boil).

 

[mac_1103]

From what I understand, the Maillard reaction, which occurs during the malting process and is responsible for caramelization, is more pronounced in LME because of the higher water content.

Citation? I don't believe that Maillard reactions are limited to the malting step and caramelization is a different chemcial reaction (that does not involve amino acids or proteins). LME contains both reducing sugars and amino acids, which are all you really need for a Maillard reaction. Both reactions require temperatures higher than that of boiling water, but those temperatures can be reached in a boil kettle (otherwise nobody would ever scorch anything).

 

[dmtaylor]

LME simply darkens faster than equivalent DME. No citation needed. Fact.

 

[Bobby_M]

I definitely did that, and the darker color / caramel-like flavor seems to be pretty common with LME.

From what I understand, the Maillard reaction, which occurs during the malting process and is responsible for caramelization, is more pronounced in LME because of the higher water content.

All malt extract, whether dry or liquid, is created from a mash so neither is going to be inherently more malty. LME goes through oxidative staling reactions while in the package much faster due to the moisture content. It's just better to use DME to take the age/storage variable out of the equation.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

FWIW, the current /r/homebrewing topic Hate to bring it up again - "Homebrew taste" issue (link) has a couple of nice summary replies for those who don't always make wort from grains.