Lme/dme

[McGreen]

So far I only have equipment and time for extract brewing.

I have been using hopped LME and since have switched to unhopped.

I have a few questions on the LME and DME though.

1. When brewing, is it always wise to use a combo of LME and DME? Or does that not matter?

2. Since extract is just a base and I can use specialty grains to mash and steep, does it really matter that much if I am using light, amber, or dark? I am working on a Guinness clone and I prefer the taste of the light, and the specialty grains darken the beer enough for a stout taste and look.

3. Is DME usually unhopped?

4. If you are an extract brewer, do you prefer DME or LME?

5. This is a lingo/terminology question: What is the difference between mashing and steeping if any? Since I only use specialty grains, not all grain, I am not sure I understand the difference. I AM SUCH A NOOB!

Sorry for so many questions about extract. Cheers everyone!

 

[Rogue14]

As a newbie I can really only give a half-a$$ answer. During a mash you will be extracting the fermentable sugars, color etc from your grains. When you steep grains you are not getting any fermentable sugars. You'll mainly be getting color and taste. Those with more experience will probably have a much better and complete answer.

 

[shawnbou]

1. I don't think it matters. Probably a matter of personal preference.

2. Darker extracts may get you closer to your target taste/color and OG for dark beers, depending on the recipe. But if you're happy with light extract in your stout, go for it.

3. Yes.

4. I preferred LME when I was an extract brewer. Not sure why, just habit I guess. I use DME for starters.

5. The goal of mashing is to actually convert some of the starches in those grains to sugar, so you get some sugar from the grains in addition to the extract (if any). So you must use some base malts with diastatic power in addition to any other specialty grains you use. When steeping, you do not need to use any base malts because the purpose is not to convert and extract sugar, just to make a "grain tea" with flavors and color. Thus, you can steep specialty grains alone without base malt.

 

[McGreen]

Found this for #5! Thanks blacklab!

When you mini mash, you are going to hold the grains at a set temp(150-160) for a set period of time(1 hour). The difference between this and a full mash is that you are going to perform the mash with a smaller volume of water(2 gallons or so), then add more water + extract to achieve your final 5 gallon volume. In a full mash, you would mash will the full volume of water to go into the boil. You will also be using base grains in a mini mash, not just 'flavoring' grains. Your base 2 row grains need to go through enzymatic conversion to create sugars.

Steeping involves sticking the specialty grains(crystal, caramel, chocolate, +many more) in the smaller volume of water and heating the water up to 160 or so, then removing them. This provides the flavor of the grains by steeping them like tea, but not the sugars through the starch conversion of mashing. Then, in steeping you'll add your extract which will provide the bulk of the sugars. Steeping with base grains(2 row) will not achieve a decent efficiency and you won't get enough sugars out of them to make any difference.

My only question, is in a mash or mini-mash, the grains go directly in the wort? Or are they still steeped?

 

[McGreen]

1. I don't think it matters. Probably a matter of personal preference.

2. Darker extracts may get you closer to your target taste/color and OG for dark beers, depending on the recipe. But if you're happy with light extract in your stout, go for it.

3. Yes.

4. I preferred LME when I was an extract brewer. Not sure why, just habit I guess. I use DME for starters.

5. The goal of mashing is to actually convert some of the starches in those grains to sugar, so you get some sugar from the grains in addition to the extract (if any). So you must use some base malts with diastatic power in addition to any other specialty grains you use. When steeping, you do not need to use any base malts because the purpose is not to convert and extract sugar, just to make a "grain tea" with flavors and color. Thus, you can steep specialty grains alone without base malt.

Thanks you so much bro! Helps A TON!

That is what this forum is for I am sure. I cannot wait until I can help somebody else out with my experiences. Cheers!

 

[shawnbou]

Thanks you so much bro! Helps A TON!

That is what this forum is for I am sure. I cannot wait until I can help somebody else out with my experiences. Cheers!

You're welcome! And don't ever feel bad about asking questions or being a noob ... we've all been there.

 

[GoodRatsBrew]

No foolish questions posted. My answers and point of views are:
1. I've never seen the benefit of using both LME and DME other than cost.
2. If I'm doing a dark beer like a stout, I'll use an amber and let my specialty grains add to the color and body. I usually never use dark DME or LME.
3. That's been the case for me.
4. I prefer LME b/c I hate how DME clumps up.
5. Mashing and steeping are very similar except mashing to my knowledge involves loose grains while steeping would be placing grains in a muslin bag during the boil. basically in both you're still extracting the sugars and flavors from the grains.

Remember there's nothing wrong with extract brewing. I have some beers that are my "staples" that I still extract brew because it's easily repeatable. The biggest advantage to "all-grain" is it does knock the price per pint down considerably.

 

[TTB-J]

When you do a mini-mash or partial mash, which essentially means you are only mashing a portion of the total grain bill and the other portion will be made up by extract, you will do a process a lot like steeping in a separate pot or bucket of water. You "mash" by soaking the grains at around 148-152* F for 60 minutes and then you "sparge" by rinsing the grains with around 170* F water to get all of the sugars you can off of them. That, plus any other water or extract that you want to put in, is your wort.

Mashing takes more time than steeping and it requires that you keep a fairly consistent temperature over the whole hour, but that's really the main difference in terms of process between mashing and steeping.

To be clear, you can get fermentable sugars out of steeping specialty grains, like Crystal malts. These have gone through a special process where they were essentially pre-mashed. Steeping them releases the already converted sugars, along with the flavor and color that they have depending on the heat that was applied in the kiln. Some of those sugars will not be fermentable, which is why Crystal malts tend to give a sweat, caramel flavor when added to a recipe. Specialty grains generally don't have "diastatic power," which means they cannot convert starch to sugar - so mashing does nothing to those grains that steeping wouldn't do.

 

[Brasco20]

If you do a mini mash you will need a large fine mesh bag to put the grains in, unless you have a pot or a mash tun with some type of false bottom. You have to have some way of separating the grain from the liquid.

 

[ACbrewer]

#1 If you prefer LME or prefer DME then I'd guess there is no need to use the other - that is unless the reciepe and starting gravity call for like 7LB of malt, since LME is sually sold in 3 or 3.3lb cans to get the extra malt you mix. The big reason for LME is it is less expensive than DME. But DME comes in more 'units' - I've seen 1, 2 and 3lb easily avialable, and I think you can order online any size. yeah I know get a 30 lb jug DME exists, but unless you brew frequently, you might end up storing/loosing that.

#4 DME Clumps and is more $$$, LME has to be heated to flow better, rinsed to get it all and comes primarily in 3.3 lb cans, frankly each has advantages and drawbacks. I use a mix because I usually end up with '1 can LME (3.3) and 2lb DME for about 5lb of Malt' or some such mixing. I often don't like storing the malt opened. I'm mildly concerned about not using it soon enough. While malt can be stored if handled properly, I have a 4 and 3 year old who get into things....

 

[Covert]

Honestly, both DME and LME are just base malts to add OG points to the beer. I am putting back together my allgrain brewery so in the meantime I am doing minimashes and use extralight DME as my base malt. For one thing DME is cheaper than LME as far as OG points go, at least if you shop at Maryland Homebrew (insert disclaimer here). But you can also measure out as much or as little as you want with DME, whereas with LME you are stuck with basically 3.3 pound increments. I stay away from hopped malt extracts because I want to measure the IBUs myself, but other than that malt is malt.