LME and DME at same time

[pretzelb]

I have an extract kit from NB for St Paul's Porter and the instructions say when indicated the two extracts should be added at the correct time. However there is no time that I can see for either. So is it safe to assume they both go in at the same time if no time is indicated?

It's only my 7th batch but it seems like when you have two types of extract they usually go in at different times.

 

[Yooper]

Generally, yes, they go in at the same time. There isn't any difference between liquid and dry extract, except for one being powder and one having water in it.

However, many of us like to do a late extract addition- adding the LME late at the end of the boil. There are a couple of reasons- one is that it keeps the brew lighter colored, and it also increases the hops utilization so you can use a little less bittering hops at the 60 minute addition.

You can do either, but if you add the LME at the end, you may want to reduce the bittering hops slightly (like about 20%).

 

[aksea102]

However, many of us like to do a late extract addition- adding the LME late at the end of the boil. There are a couple of reasons- one is that it keeps the brew lighter colored, and it also increases the hops utilization so you can use a little less bittering hops at the 60 minute addition.

I recently read another thread on late additions and this school of thought interests me. I am a total newbie, so hang with me while I work this out...as an extract brewer doing partial boils, I am diluting the hops (and lowering my IBU's) when I add my cooled wort to the 2+ gallons of cold water in my fermenter, right? So if I add my LME/DME at the end of my boil, I increase hops utilization. I will clearly still be diluting the hops (as stated before) but am I at least increasing the amount I will be diluting, in turn increasing efficiency somewhat? Since LME and DME have already been boiled/evaporated etc, why do most extract kits call for 60min boils anyways? What was the theory behind that? Thanks!-AMY

 

[mitch171]

I am still pretty new to this. As I understand it, 60 min is needed to isomerize the alpha acids in the hops to create a bitter taste. What I have come to figure out is there are kind of three phases of hop additions.

1st Bittering: needs to boil for at least 60 min

2nd Flavor: Tends to be added with 45-15 min left in boil. (Although I am not so sure why this is different than bittering, I think it has more actual flavor and not just bitterness.)

3rd Aroma: Added 15-0 min left in boil. Or anytime after the boil, before/during consumption.

I hope this makes sense and is accurate, again I am still somewhat new to this so I may be way off.

 

[Yooper]

You're not "diluting the hops". The hops just release more oils in wort without so much extract in it. That's why some newer recipes tell you to add the majority of the extract at the end of the boil. You get better hops utilization in wort that isn't so "heavy". It doesn't increase efficiency, it increases hops utilization.

 

[aksea102]

That makes perfect sense, thanks. I am definitely going to play around with late additions of the LME/DME. Any basic 'guidelines' for when to add late extracts? Just a rough estimate will do. All the kits I have bought call for putting it in at the 60min mark. Looking forward to some experimentation!

 

[eppo]

personally, i would try the recipe as per the instructions first. then try it again with late extract addions and note the difference in taste. it will give you a better idea of how what your doing effects the beer.

 

[peripatetic]

What is happening to the extract during that 60 minutes of boiling? Will adding it at the end have any negative impact on the that?

This is a noob question -- I just figured there was some reason that all of the instructions that I've seen call for adding the extract at the beginning.

 

[marubozo]

What is happening to the extract during that 60 minutes of boiling? Will adding it at the end have any negative impact on the that?

This is a noob question -- I just figured there was some reason that all of the instructions that I've seen call for adding the extract at the beginning.

Nothing is really happening to the extract during the boil other than eventually getting a "hot break". This is just when the proteins begin to clump together. It doesn't take 60 minutes for this to occur, but usually just a few minutes after coming to a rolling boil.

So, it really wouldn't matter if you boil the extract for 10 minutes or 60 minutes as long as you get the hot break. As mentioned above, the only reason you might add the extract later in the boil is to get better utilization from your hops and avoid possible caramelization of the extract when doing a partial boil.