List of PJ Electrical Diagrams

[bfinleyui]

Just wanted to come in and say thanks, PJ and others, for all the help. Finally got everything wired up properly, gonna try and do a water test tomorrow, but early tests with the temperature sensor seem positive!

Couldn't have done it without you guys' help. Prost!

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[jwy]

I have been all grain brewing on a propane burner setup for a while and found most answers by google searches. However, I feel like I need some help with this. I am looking to go electric. I have assembled most of my parts and I am going to use a wiring diagram that is similar to the diagram on page 1 of this thread titled "30A 5500 Single Element PID." I am not sure what gauge of wire I should use for internal wiring of the control box. I am not sure if there is a link to that somewhere on this site. If there is, would someone be able to point me in the correct direction. If not, would someone be able to shed some light on this for me? Looking forward to the build and checking out the ton of info here.

 

[doug293cz]

I have been all grain brewing on a propane burner setup for a while and found most answers by google searches. However, I feel like I need some help with this. I am looking to go electric. I have assembled most of my parts and I am going to use a wiring diagram that is similar to the diagram on page 1 of this thread titled "30A 5500 Single Element PID." I am not sure what gauge of wire I should use for internal wiring of the control box. I am not sure if there is a link to that somewhere on this site. If there is, would someone be able to point me in the correct direction. If not, would someone be able to shed some light on this for me? Looking forward to the build and checking out the ton of info here.

Check out the primer here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/electrical-primer-brewers-145019/. It tells you what wire size you need based on how much current will go thru the wire. You should be able to tell how much current will flow thru each wire, by looking at the load connected to it. You will need the specs for all the powered items for this. If you don't know how to trace current flow thru a schematic, you need to get help from someone, or educate yourself until you can do it yourself.

Brew on

 

[OneManBrewery]

PJ your diagrams are a great resource. Thanks for all your hard work.

If anybody could weigh in and help me out with my wiring schematic, I'd be thankful. I'm no electrician.

 

[BigDog007]

These drawings are amazing and are making what I thought would be impossible "possible". I am doing BIAB in one vessel. This is a 15 gallon bk. I want to do a RIMS setup with recirculation and then also have an element in the same vessel to boil.

I'm not sure if this is right but I saw another drawing in one of the threads showing a setup with RIMS and Boil. Drawing #Auberin-wiring1-a13-SYL-2352-4500w-RIMS . Can anyone tell me if this would work in the application I describe?

Again...

1. Want to recirculate in the kettle using a RIMS while doing a BIAB mash.
2. Want to put a boil element in the same kettle.
3. Not sure I'll need 2 pumps like the drawing shows as primarily this will be used for recirc, just not sure with a single vessel brew why I would need 2 pumps.

I am thinking this is what I'd want for my application but was hoping someone might confirm that. This P-J fella is amazing, I was shocked as over and over again through all of these threads he gives and gives and gives. Very selfless. And yes, I read all 634 posts even though it took me since last night.

Thanks!

RP

 

[P-J]

These drawings are amazing and are making what I thought would be impossible "possible". I am doing BIAB in one vessel. This is a 15 gallon bk. I want to do a RIMS setup with recirculation and then also have an element in the same vessel to boil.

I'm not sure if this is right but I saw another drawing in one of the threads showing a setup with RIMS and Boil. Drawing #Auberin-wiring1-a13-SYL-2352-4500w-RIMS . Can anyone tell me if this would work in the application I describe?

Again...

1. Want to recirculate in the kettle using a RIMS while doing a BIAB mash.
2. Want to put a boil element in the same kettle.
3. Not sure I'll need 2 pumps like the drawing shows as primarily this will be used for recirc, just not sure with a single vessel brew why I would need 2 pumps.

I am thinking this is what I'd want for my application but was hoping someone might confirm that. This P-J fella is amazing, I was shocked as over and over again through all of these threads he gives and gives and gives. Very selfless. And yes, I read all 634 posts even though it took me since last night.

Thanks!

RP

BigDog007,

In my most humble opnion you will be good to go with that wiring plan. I would set it up for the 2 pumps as the cost in the design and setup in minimal at that time. Just don't get the second pump until you see that you need it. (The outlet & switch are cheap. With the outlet in place you are set.) The initial wiring is not expensive and if done in the beginnng it will save you a lot of grief down the road if your plan changes. (Just saying...)

Wishing you the best & Please let us know how it works out for you.

P-J

 

[BigDog007]

BigDog007,

In my most humble opnion you will be good to go with that wiring plan. I would set it up for the 2 pumps as the cost in the design and setup in minimal at that time. Just don't get the second pump until you see that you need it. (The outlet & switch are cheap. With the outlet in place you are set.) The initial wiring is not expensive and if done in the beginnng it will save you a lot of grief down the road if your plan changes. (Just saying...)

Wishing you the best & Please let us know how it works out for you.

P-J

Thank you P-J!

I am going to try and build it myself but have one of my electricians at the plant I work for look it over to make sure I'm using all of the right parts.

I've worked in food manufacturing for a while and I've seen a lot of these items used but have never done so myself. Trying to spec. out a parts list now so I can determine cost and get started.

I'm hoping I can purchase the right items first...

Thanks again!

RP

 

[Rivenin]

can someone assist with this?
trying to find this exact switch (SW1 in the diagram)
i went onto graingers website but i can only really find a 4 position DPST switch, not the one listed with 6 connectors.

 

[P-J]

BigDog007,

Check out http://www.auberins.com/ for your controller and other parts (switches, controller box et.al.)

They are a good source.

P-J

 

[P-J]

can someone assist with this?
trying to find this exact switch (SW1 in the diagram)
i went onto graingers website but i can only really find a 4 position DPST switch, not the one listed with 6 connectors.

The switch is a double pole single throw unit. The illustration is one I had handy at the time I drew the diagram. If you check out the switch wiring it is only using one set of primary contacts.

Hope this makes sense.

BTW the switch is this one http://www.grainger.com/product/NKK-Toggle-Switch-2TPF6

P-J

 

[BigDog007]

Thank you P-J!

I am going to try and build it myself but have one of my electricians at the plant I work for look it over to make sure I'm using all of the right parts.

I've worked in food manufacturing for a while and I've seen a lot of these items used but have never done so myself. Trying to spec. out a parts list now so I can determine cost and get started.

I'm hoping I can purchase the right items first...

Thanks again!

RP

P-J,

Another question, will this same design support a 5500w element instead of the listed 4500w? The only reason I ask is because it's actually a little cheaper (not significantly) so I figured I may as well ask.

http://www.amazon.com/Camco-02963-Screw--Ripple-Element/dp/B000BPG4LI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424568488&sr=8-1&keywords=camco+5500w

 

[P-J]

P-J,

Another question, will this same design support a 5500w element instead of the listed 4500w? The only reason I ask is because it's actually a little cheaper (not significantly) so I figured I may as well ask.

Quick answer is Yes. You are very close to the calculated limit but it will work for you.

P-J

 

[BigDog007]

Awesome! Thanks P-J!

 

[BigDog007]

P-J,

I've been putting together my parts list all night and believe it or not I've made great progress! I am, however, running into a bit of an issue locating a 30A 240v DPST toggle or any on/off switch that I think will work for that matter. The original part # referenced in the diagram you made doesn't come up anymore. Just for good measure I thought I would list my parts list and was hoping you might chime in with a suggestion or tell me I'm crazy...

Auburn Instruments:
2 - SYL-2352 PID's
2 - 40A SSR
1 - Wall Mount Box w/ 2 cutouts for PID's
1 - E-Stop Switch
1 - Weldless RTD for brew kettle
1 - 1/2" NPT RTD for RIMS tube
1 - Flashing Buzzer

Amazon:
-Ordered everything for my RIMS and brew kettle element build
2 - 15A 120v Start/Stop Switches for pumps
2 - 15A 120v On/Off Switches (1 for PID's and 1 for Buzzer)

Missing:
-1 15a fast blow fuse (need to find this)
-2 1a fast blow fues (need to find these)
-2 1k ohm 1 watt resisters (need to find these)

Missing and panicking about:
2 - 30A 240v kill switches (1 for RIMS, 1 for Boil Element)
**NOTE** - I've looked everywhere and I've found quite a bit of information on multiple brew forums with people running into the same issue, am I overthinking these or is it really that hard to find these?

I originally was looking for on/off selector switches for everything, then I started finding various ones that had "start/stop" which seemed applicable to the pumps, green led light toggles which I used for the PID power and buzzer, just can't find the ones listed above.

I'm linking to the drawing, any feedback would be great. I plan on purchasing all that remains over the next couple days, can't wait to start building this thing.

http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a13-SYL-2352-4500w-RIMS.jpg

 

[P-J]

BigDog007,

Here is the link to the switches.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/S821/360-2096-ND/1007153

P-J

 

[BigDog007]

BigDog007,

Here is the link to the switches.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/S821/360-2096-ND/1007153

P-J

Thanks P-J, Definitely the most expensive switch in the group but it'll be worth it if they work.

RP

 

[Namako]

Many, MANY thanks to all who have contributed so much to this thread (and others), and certainly a very special shout-out to P-J!! And hey, Kal, my retirement savings and my daughter's college fund still all HATE you!

I've read all 65 pages, and I got more than a little excited on page 45 (#449) where Hunky asked something that was pretty close to my question, but by the next page he appeared to go another direction. Obviously from the length of this thread, there are hundreds of permutations in how to wire up a control panel, so here's mine.

I have three 20-gallon kettles and I brew 10 gallon batches. I'd like to be able to brew back-to-back on the weekends my SWMBO lets me have my man-card back, if not back-to-back-to-back, so I will certainly need to run both the HLT and BK heater elements simultaneously, as well as the element in the RIMS.

I need a panel that brings in 2 each 30A/240V circuits to independently power the HLT and BK Blichmann BoilCoils (5000W/240V), and 2 each 20A/120V circuits, one to power a BCS-462 (differing from the BCS-460 only in the number of inputs [2X] and outputs [3X]), three March pumps, and the 5VDC and 12VDC transformers to power the valves, lights, relay boards; and the other circuit dedicated to powering just the RIMS (2000W/120V). The electrical outlets have already been pulled to the brew area in the garage (one is just the 20A/120V circuit that services the entire garage, and will power the BCS/pumps). The others are GFCI-protected circuits pulled from the main panel by a licensed electrician.

I was going to use several of P-J's electrical drawings, and just treat my system as if I had three simple one-element systems, with the BCS-462 substituted in for the PIDs. Besides needing more space for all the electrical components, I think it's pretty straight-forward - again, thanks to P-J!!

One of my concerns is the e-stop, as that might get a little tricky - I don't want to have to hit three of them, so maybe something in parallel? Thoughts?

More importantly, is there something I'm missing in combining all of this together?? I think the SSRs and contactors are going to keep all the electrons in their respective cages, and the BCS-462 behind them doesn't really care where all the power is coming from, right?

Finally, how did the collective effort to get P-J's computer upgraded to the 21st Century go? I have a few $$$ burning a hole in my pocket, and I'd love to contribute!

 

[jeffmeh]

Many, MANY thanks to all who have contributed so much to this thread (and others), and certainly a very special shout-out to P-J!! And hey, Kal, my retirement savings and my daughter's college fund still all HATE you!

I've read all 65 pages, and I got more than a little excited on page 45 (#449) where Hunky asked something that was pretty close to my question, but by the next page he appeared to go another direction. Obviously from the length of this thread, there are hundreds of permutations in how to wire up a control panel, so here's mine.

I have three 20-gallon kettles and I brew 10 gallon batches. I'd like to be able to brew back-to-back on the weekends my SWMBO lets me have my man-card back, if not back-to-back-to-back, so I will certainly need to run both the HLT and BK heater elements simultaneously, as well as the element in the RIMS.

I need a panel that brings in 2 each 30A/240V circuits to independently power the HLT and BK Blichmann BoilCoils (5000W/240V), and 2 each 20A/120V circuits, one to power a BCS-462 (differing from the BCS-460 only in the number of inputs [2X] and outputs [3X]), three March pumps, and the 5VDC and 12VDC transformers to power the valves, lights, relay boards; and the other circuit dedicated to powering just the RIMS (2000W/120V). The electrical outlets have already been pulled to the brew area in the garage (one is just the 20A/120V circuit that services the entire garage, and will power the BCS/pumps). The others are GFCI-protected circuits pulled from the main panel by a licensed electrician.

I was going to use several of P-J's electrical drawings, and just treat my system as if I had three simple one-element systems, with the BCS-462 substituted in for the PIDs. Besides needing more space for all the electrical components, I think it's pretty straight-forward - again, thanks to P-J!!

One of my concerns is the e-stop, as that might get a little tricky - I don't want to have to hit three of them, so maybe something in parallel? Thoughts?

More importantly, is there something I'm missing in combining all of this together?? I think the SSRs and contactors are going to keep all the electrons in their respective cages, and the BCS-462 behind them doesn't really care where all the power is coming from, right?

Finally, how did the collective effort to get P-J's computer upgraded to the 21st Century go? I have a few $$$ burning a hole in my pocket, and I'd love to contribute!

If I understand correctly, you will have 4 independent circuits, 2@240v, 2@120v as input into the panel. Why that rather than, say, one 60a, 120v/240v input? Your method will certainly work, and rather than trying to build an e-stop to trip 4 separate GFCIs, why not run all those hot inputs through a set of contactors that you could switch on and off, as a main shutoff for the entire panel? You could use an e-stop mushroom for it, if that matters to you. Sounds like fun, regardless.

 

[Namako]

If I understand correctly, you will have 4 independent circuits, 2@240v, 2@120v as input into the panel. Why that rather than, say, one 60a, 120v/240v input? Your method will certainly work, and rather than trying to build an e-stop to trip 4 separate GFCIs, why not run all those hot inputs through a set of contactors that you could switch on and off, as a main shutoff for the entire panel? You could use an e-stop mushroom for it, if that matters to you. Sounds like fun, regardless.

The primary reason for my going this route was the significant cost and lower availability of electrical components once you go above 240V/30A.

I had been thinking of stacking four N.O. contacts on the main power selector, and running each of the power lines through them, and that may be the best route to take.

 

[jeffmeh]

The primary reason for my going this route was the significant cost and lower availability of electrical components once you go above 240V/30A.

I had been thinking of stacking four N.O. contacts on the main power selector, and running each of the power lines through them, and that may be the best route to take.

You only need to run one 120v hot and neutral to a N.O. 120v switch, to a 120v coil for the contactor, then have all 6 hot lines run through the contactor. There is likely some 240v, 120v coil, 6 line-capable contactor out there, but you could use multiple contactors with the switch running to each coil.

 

[jakwi]

PJ thank you for your wonderful contributions.

I brewed this weekend with my E keggles, Manual mode (plug it in, unplug as necessary) which worked ok for the HLT, but was a relative disaster for the Boil Keggle. I was cycling the plug about once every 45s! I ended up putting it back on propane with a renewed desire to build the control box.

So I've been looking for a diagram that I'm not sure you've created. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

220v system
two pumps (120v)
HLT on a PID
BK on a DSPR1 from Auber
Possibly a separate timer.

Eventually I'll probably turn this into a HERMS system

 

[Namako]

You only need to run one 120v hot and neutral to a N.O. 120v switch, to a 120v coil for the contactor, then have all 6 hot lines run through the contactor. There is likely some 240v, 120v coil, 6 line-capable contactor out there, but you could use multiple contactors with the switch running to each coil.

Whoa!! You might have lost on me on that 6 hot lines through the contactor comment - are you talking about 6 contacts stacked up on a selector switch?

 

[doug293cz]

Whoa!! You might have lost on me on that 6 hot lines through the contactor comment - are you talking about 6 contacts stacked up on a selector switch?

No, you just have to bring one 60A, 240V feed into your panel. Auber (http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_31&products_id=439) sells a 2 pole 63A 240V contactor with 120V coil. You can control the contactor coil with a low cost switch. You can add breakers or fuses for the different branches (heaters, pumps, etc.) within the control box.

Edit: Sorry, I missed the part where you already had lower amp circuits already wired. That will make things more complicated in the control box, if you want to run everything from one box.

You could run each power feed thru its own contactor, and control all contactor coils with a main power switch (NO) and mushroom EPO (NC) in series. In this case the EPO won't kill power at the breakers and eliminate all voltage in your control box, but will knock out everything after the contactors. You could also add switches in parallel after the main power and EPO to control each heater contactor separately.

Brew on

 

[jeffmeh]

Whoa!! You might have lost on me on that 6 hot lines through the contactor comment - are you talking about 6 contacts stacked up on a selector switch?

No. One NO switch fed with one 120v that will control the coil of one or more contactors. All hots run through the contactors before they are fed to any loads. Turn switch off and all power to loads is cut. The switches generally aren't rated for sufficient current anyway, but the contactors will be.

Look at Kal's main power switch and contactor. You just have 6 hot lines, where he has 2.

 

[Namako]

I'll have to spend a few minutes pondering that - I'm still trying to visualize it. I guess my initial confusion is on your use of six? I have four power sources, 2 30A/240V, and 2 20A/120V. Is it because I have 2 hots for each 30A/240V circuit?

Time for me to sharpen my pencil and do some doodling on P-J's drawings...

Thanks!!

 

[jeffmeh]

I'll have to spend a few minutes pondering that - I'm still trying to visualize it. I guess my initial confusion is on your use of six? I have four power sources, 2 30A/240V, and 2 20A/120V. Is it because I have 2 hots for each 30A/240V circuit?

Time for me to sharpen my pencil and do some doodling on P-J's drawings...

Thanks!!

No worries. It can be difficult to visualize without a diagram. But yes, 6 hots, 2 per 240v input (x2) plus 1 per 120v input (x2). One 120v, NO switch. One contactor coil ( or many wired in parallel) from the switch. Each hot running through the contactor (s).

Here's Kal's page. Look at the power relay and try to visualize either 3 of them wired in parallel from the switch, or a relay capable of running 6 lines. The picture doesn't show the second hot from the 240v input, but that runs through 2 on the relay. I hope this helps.

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/control-panel-part-2?page=7

 

[Rivenin]

The switch is a double pole single throw unit. The illustration is one I had handy at the time I drew the diagram. If you check out the switch wiring it is only using one set of primary contacts.

Hope this makes sense.

BTW the switch is this one http://www.grainger.com/product/NKK-Toggle-Switch-2TPF6

P-J

OH i got you now the digram with 4 at the top confused me a good bit! thanks!

 

[Namako]

Jeffmeh,

Got it!! That makes sense... I think. I hope I don't blow my new-found enthusiasm with the next couple of questions.

When wiring up each of the four Power In Relays to the Power key switch, I’m betting that I will be coming into the contact on the power switch using a single wire from either the #1 OR #2 terminal on the 240V power relays, which one matters not (e.g., 1 wire from each relay)? That second coil terminal on the right side of the Power In Relay is still confusing me, as is the DPDT discussion below the diagram. I’m assuming that as long as ONE of the coils is powered with 120V (through the key switch), and the other coil is connected to neutral, it really doesn’t matter which coil terminal I use for which purpose. BOTH terminals will close.

Of course, that second terminal (#2) on the Power In Relay needs to be getting power from the other hot line in the 30A/240V receptacle (labeled “X” in a later drawing).

If this is correct, then it sounds like I should have a stack of four NO contacts on the power key switch; each contact receiving 120V power from each of the Power In receptacles (2 x 30A/240V, 2 x 20A/120V) and then running back to one of the coil terminals on each of the respective Power In Relays (2 x 30A/240V, 2 x 20A/120V). Which coil terminal I use appears to be is unimportant. The opposite coil terminal however, then connects to a common neutral.

When the key switch is activated, 120V flows through all four contacts, simultaneously closing the contactors in all four of the Power In Relays, sending power to the respective areas of the control panel.

Am I anywhere near being on base?

 

[doug293cz]

Jeffmeh,

Got it!! That makes sense... I think. I hope I don't blow my new-found enthusiasm with the next couple of questions.

When wiring up each of the four Power In Relays to the Power key switch, I’m betting that I will be coming into the contact on the power switch using a single wire from either the #1 OR #2 terminal on the 240V power relays, which one matters not (e.g., 1 wire from each relay)? That second coil terminal on the right side of the Power In Relay is still confusing me, as is the DPDT discussion below the diagram. I’m assuming that as long as ONE of the coils is powered with 120V (through the key switch), and the other coil is connected to neutral, it really doesn’t matter which coil terminal I use for which purpose. BOTH terminals will close.

Of course, that second terminal (#2) on the Power In Relay needs to be getting power from the other hot line in the 30A/240V receptacle (labeled “X” in a later drawing).

If this is correct, then it sounds like I should have a stack of four NO contacts on the power key switch; each contact receiving 120V power from each of the Power In receptacles (2 x 30A/240V, 2 x 20A/120V) and then running back to one of the coil terminals on each of the respective Power In Relays (2 x 30A/240V, 2 x 20A/120V). Which coil terminal I use appears to be is unimportant. The opposite coil terminal however, then connects to a common neutral.

When the key switch is activated, 120V flows through all four contacts, simultaneously closing the contactors in all four of the Power In Relays, sending power to the respective areas of the control panel.

Am I anywhere near being on base?

Assuming you are going to be using separate GFCI's on each of the four incoming circuits, then you need to make sure that all current in each circuit is balanced, or you will have problems with the GFCI's tripping. It only takes a few milliamps of imbalance between hot and neutral in a 120 circuit to trip a GFCI. 240 volt circuits are a little more complicated in that currents in Line1, Line2 and neutral must balance out.

Inside your control box, you will need six hot buses and 4 neutral buses.

• Two hot buses and one neutral bus for 240V circuit 1
• Two hot buses and one neutral bus for 240V circuit 2
• One hot bus and one neutral bus for 120V circuit 1
• One hot bus and one neutral bus for 120V circuit 2

For any device, the neutral must connect to the bus which is paired with the hot connection(s) for that device.

If you don't understand this, you are likely to have severe problems debugging you control panel and getting things to work.

Brew on

 

[Namako]

Doug293cz,

I'm happy to say "That makes sense!!"

I was planning on keeping all of the electrons for each circuit separate in the control box, especially since only one of the circuits will be multipurposed - the 120V/20A circuit that powers up the BCS-462, pumps, valves, AC/DC transformers and the relay boards. The other three circuits are dedicated to running their respective hot water heater elements (HLT, BK, RIMS), so the electronics on those circuits should be simple. The only place where these four circuits will technically "meet" is at the BCS-462, since it will control the SSR/Contactors that drive everything. The "brain" sits electrically behind the SSRs and Contactors, which physically separate the electrons in the other circuits.

Am I getting it, or am I overlooknig something?

Thanks!
Namako