Lindeman's Lambic clone - BYO

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pudland

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Hi all!
First time sour for me but not my first brew, by far.

Let me start off by saying:
This post is NOT meant to enter into discussions of whether or not it's a "true" Lambic blah, blah, blah or "why take the time to make a sour just to back sweeten it" blah, blah, blah... or "don't expect it to taste like Lindemans" etc... so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE refrain from that.
I've scoured this forum and the internet till I had blood coming out of my nose and found so many different takes on Framboise recipes and ageing and the outcomes.


That being said...

https://byo.com/mead/item/1749-lindemans-lambic-clone

EDIT: I will be doing the all-grain.

1) Has anyone actually followed this recipe to a "T"? If so, what were your thoughts on the outcome?

2) When it comes to the ferm/ageing... I plan on modifying the timeline a bit.
3) Primary fermentation, glass carboy...
2-3 weeks seems fine to me as I am using Wyeast Labs #1762 Belgian Abbey II which is an Ale yeast.

4) Secondary fermentation using Wyeast Labs #3278 Belgian Lambic Blend, in Ale Pales(have 10, can lose a few and not care)...
I plan on splitting it into 2 batches at this point.
Mix beer and Lambic Blend and 3 tsp Pectic Enzyme in an Ale Pale.
Place 4.5 lbs Raspberries in 2 separate Ale Pales.
Rack half of the Beer/Lambic Blend into each Ale Pale.
Attach lids and air-locks.

One will follow the original recipe timeline.

One will be handled as follows:
Secondary fermentation will sit for a minimum of 1 year @ 65*F in a dark area.
Bottled with 1.5-2.0 oz of priming sugar @ 65*F. One bottle will be tested after 2 weeks. If it is to taste, good. If not, allow it to age longer but test a bottle in another 2-3 weeks(to keep an eye on carbonation). I understand that carbonation "may" take longer at this stage.

So this is basically an experiment..

Are there any "GLARING" issues that can be seen?

Thanks!!!!
 
i dont have BYO unfortunately - but what is the recipe?
most lambic recipes are super similar, is why i ask.
 
Ah crap... need to add the link to it.. good catch!
It's in there now.
 
First rule of all-grain lambic club: you don't forget the rice hulls.

Second rule of all-grain lambic club: you do not forget the rice hulls!

If you're having trouble sourcing the aged hops, you can probably just not bother, and use a smaller quantity of fresh low-IBU old-world hops. The aged hops allow you to up the quantity, and thus the antimicrobial property of your wort, without increasing bitterness. But this really only matters when you're catching wild bugs, and want to keep enteric bacteria and other nasties down while the yeast and pediococcus get a strong foothold; long as you're practicing even half-a55ed sanitary technique, this won't be an issue at all for a beer with pitched culture(s).

Seriously, though, I've got four batches of golden sour aging away, and the worst part was spying the unused bag of rice hulls across the room right as I was wondering why my first runnings were trickling to a halt after only having collected a gallon and a half or so. Don't forget the rice hulls!
 
I would skip the ale yeast primary and pitch roeselare at the beginning instead. First gen roeselare notoriously doesn't sour enough and using a clean sacch strain in primary will give the microbes even less to work on. 2nd, I'd skip the secondary until you're adding the fruit. Brett will create some great flavors when left on the cake. And my third suggestion is to forget a timeline and let the beer tell you when it's ready.
 
First rule of all-grain lambic club: you don't forget the rice hulls.

Second rule of all-grain lambic club: you do not forget the rice hulls!

If you're having trouble sourcing the aged hops, you can probably just not bother, and use a smaller quantity of fresh low-IBU old-world hops. The aged hops allow you to up the quantity, and thus the antimicrobial property of your wort, without increasing bitterness. But this really only matters when you're catching wild bugs, and want to keep enteric bacteria and other nasties down while the yeast and pediococcus get a strong foothold; long as you're practicing even half-a55ed sanitary technique, this won't be an issue at all for a beer with pitched culture(s).

Seriously, though, I've got four batches of golden sour aging away, and the worst part was spying the unused bag of rice hulls across the room right as I was wondering why my first runnings were trickling to a halt after only having collected a gallon and a half or so. Don't forget the rice hulls!

I didn't even think about rice hulls... I just brewed a wheat bear and didn't have an issue. Maybe because my false bottom is a collapsible vegi steamer (big holes) and used a paint strainer bag in the mash tun.

I have Saaz hops at 3.74%. I was debating putting them in the low temp oven.
 
I would skip the ale yeast primary and pitch roeselare at the beginning instead. First gen roeselare notoriously doesn't sour enough and using a clean sacch strain in primary will give the microbes even less to work on. 2nd, I'd skip the secondary until you're adding the fruit. Brett will create some great flavors when left on the cake. And my third suggestion is to forget a timeline and let the beer tell you when it's ready.

I'll search for it. Northern Brewer is out of stock.
What would be a "typical" primary time with this yeast?

The fruit is being added into the secondary along with the beer. When that happens is dependent the length of the primary. Maybe I don't understand your statement?
 
Don't age sours/wilds(or anything long term for that matter) in a bucket. The oxygen exchange that happens around the gasket is way too high and you will end up with more acetic acid than you want.

As for fruiting, add the fruit after "terminal gravity" is reached then after 8-10 weeks package. I don't understand why people want to add fruit so early in the life of a long term beers.

You don't need the pectic enzyme.


So you plan to pasteurize when it hits the appropriate level of carb?
 
I'll search for it. Northern Brewer is out of stock.
What would be a "typical" primary time with this yeast?

The fruit is being added into the secondary along with the beer. When that happens is dependent the length of the primary. Maybe I don't understand your statement?

Sorry, I must have misinterpreted. I thought you planned on doing a primary with WY1768 then racking to secondary to add the Belgian Lambic Blend. But since it seems like you aren't, my advice would just be to would skip the WY1762 and just use the 3278 in primary (it contains sacch). You will get more character from the LAB and Brett this way. The 3278 blend contains pedio which is very slow growing. I would recommend waiting at least six months until you taste it. Once the pedio gets going it'll spit out a lot of diacetyl and then the brett will clean that up over time. I typically taste my sours every 2-3 months to see how they're coming along and if they are tasting great, I go ahead and package them.
 
First rule of all-grain lambic club: you don't forget the rice hulls.

Second rule of all-grain lambic club: you do not forget the rice hulls!

If you're having trouble sourcing the aged hops, you can probably just not bother, and use a smaller quantity of fresh low-IBU old-world hops. The aged hops allow you to up the quantity, and thus the antimicrobial property of your wort, without increasing bitterness. But this really only matters when you're catching wild bugs, and want to keep enteric bacteria and other nasties down while the yeast and pediococcus get a strong foothold; long as you're practicing even half-a55ed sanitary technique, this won't be an issue at all for a beer with pitched culture(s).

Seriously, though, I've got four batches of golden sour aging away, and the worst part was spying the unused bag of rice hulls across the room right as I was wondering why my first runnings were trickling to a halt after only having collected a gallon and a half or so. Don't forget the rice hulls!

Majority of people do all grain without the use of rice hulls. ive used them once and there was barely any difference. i think you need to adjust your crush if you have stuck mash issues.







OP pls post your results. looks like the schedule for this is 2 months..... thats pretty fast for a sour beer.
 
Don't age sours/wilds(or anything long term for that matter) in a bucket. The oxygen exchange that happens around the gasket is way too high and you will end up with more acetic acid than you want.

As for fruiting, add the fruit after "terminal gravity" is reached then after 8-10 weeks package. I don't understand why people want to add fruit so early in the life of a long term beers.

You don't need the pectic enzyme.


So you plan to pasteurize when it hits the appropriate level of carb?

Is the oxygen exchange the only concern with ageing in the bucket?

Racking to the secondary and fruiting after TG is understood, I just didn't spell it out.

I'll remove the Pectic Enzyme.

Yes, I was going to bottle pasteurize. I have successfully done that with cider using the Easy Stove Top method found in the HBT forum.
 
Sorry, I must have misinterpreted. I thought you planned on doing a primary with WY1768 then racking to secondary to add the Belgian Lambic Blend. But since it seems like you aren't, my advice would just be to would skip the WY1762 and just use the 3278 in primary (it contains sacch). You will get more character from the LAB and Brett this way. The 3278 blend contains pedio which is very slow growing. I would recommend waiting at least six months until you taste it. Once the pedio gets going it'll spit out a lot of diacetyl and then the brett will clean that up over time. I typically taste my sours every 2-3 months to see how they're coming along and if they are tasting great, I go ahead and package them.

Maybe for a second sour batch I'll do the 3278 in the primary, I'm kind of interested to see what character the Ale yeast gives the batch.

I'm splitting this into 2 secondaries so that one of them follows the original recipe as close as possible. I'm trying to see how the original recipe comes out while leaving the other secondary to age more appropriately.
 
OP pls post your results. looks like the schedule for this is 2 months..... thats pretty fast for a sour beer.

I will definitely keep this thread updated as it moves along!
 
I will definitely keep this thread updated as it moves along!


BYO recipe looks like a good start. Personally I would primary with us-05 (cheap, easy and neutral) for a bit then pitch wy lambic starter and add dregs from Lindemans cuvee renee. I did this and at 6 months it was incredibly delicious. Good enough I chose not to add my Cantillon starter to it. I used 5 ibu Noble hops not aged. But any variation you like should turn out great. Just add the dregs.

One thing Ive noticed w Lambic blend. It is variable. It can be nice and clean or very bretty out of the pack. Have another beer going that was more brett forward (sort of stunk) so I'll see how that progresses. Please keep us updated.
 
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