Lightly bitter finish every time - is this normal?

[Gilligan]

I made several batches of cider using Nottingham yeast and two types of juice - unfiltered natural-looking juice, and crystal clear Motts. Varying amounts of added sugar, from 1/2 to 1 pound per gallon. Each time, I let it ferment to the end, yielding a nice dry cider without any back-sweetening.

The cider tastes good every time, but unlike the commercial ciders, mine has a slightly bitter finish, regardless of what juice I use.

Is this to be expected of apple cider, or is this a characteristic of Nottingham and/or sugar?

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

I am not sure, but I think it has something to do with the ascorbic acid in these juices. I'm thinking my next batch of apfelwein I'll get some good orchard cider and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Gilligan]

So, do you get a bitter finish too?

The health food store brand of cloudy juice did not have ascorbic acid added. Just pasteurized unfiltered juice. Same bitterness as Motts.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

So, do you get a bitter finish too?

The health food store brand of cloudy juice did not have ascorbic acid added. Just pasteurized unfiltered juice. Same bitterness as Motts.

Yes, there is a slight bitterness in my apfelwein (cider). It's not yeast specific as I made my apfelwein with Montrachet, not Nottingham.

It's probably tannins in the apples themselves. It should mellow out with age. It really is a minor flavor now, but it is noticeable.

 

[Gilligan]

Another experiment, same results. This time, I used a gallon of Tree Top "not from concentrate" juice and a packet of Red Star Champagne yeast. 1/4 teaspoon (aprx 1 gram) Fermaid nutrient, and 1 cup of sugar. I shook up the jug every day to keep the yeast in suspension.

Fermentation was fast and very bubbly. Hydrometer went to 1.000 in just 6 days.

Tasted it today and sure enough, there is a slightly bitter after-taste. Otherwise, it is great - dry and light apple flavor. Tastes good, but it would be nice to get rid of the bitterness.

I'm wondering if tanin may be to blame. If that's the case, aging should get rid of the bitterness.

Any other ideas?

 

[jco0n]

Hey Gilligan, did your unfiltered/cloudy apple "cider" end up clearing? I currently have a batch of unfiltered orchard style "cider" fermenting with brown sugar and notty and wondering if it will eventually clear... And if so how long will it take. Thanks

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[oljimmy]

It is not the tannins. Mott's is apple juice concentrate made from Mexican, American and Chinese apples, which have very low tannin content (this is why the premier cider-houses like Farnum Hill grow English-variety apple trees). Trust me, there is probably no way you have very much tannin in your cider, unless you dumped in a crazy amount of liquid or powdered tannin.

You can gauge tannin bitterness by tasting carefully. Tannins are in black tea: when you drink it, there's a semi-sharp and bitter film that is most obvious when you run your tongue over the roof of your mouth. Your tongue will seem to "stick" a little... that's tannin. I'm guessing that this is not the bitterness you are tasting.

I've found that a certain bitterness is generated by oxidation, by exposing your cider to oxygen after it's been fermented. This can be done by pouring the cider instead of racking it, or by leaving too my headspace in the bottles when bottling, or a bunch of other ways. It can be reduced by adding a small amount of campden at every stage. This might be what's going on. Good luck!

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Most commercial ciders have at least small amount of residual sugar to them. Some are down right syrupy sweet. The sugar will tend to mask the bitterness making a 'dry' cider seem more bitter.

 

[Gilligan]

So other than adding sugar, is there a way to get rid of the bitterness? Is it something that would "age out"?

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

Without actually tasting the bitterness you mention, it's hard to say if it would age out. One man's bitterness, might just be a dry, complex flavor to another. It sounds like you are getting it with multiple juices so I can only say it's either the way you perceive tartness or it might be something you are adding. What type of sanitizer are you using? Is it a no-rinse sanitizer?

I use Nottingham in my ciders and I don't get an overly bitter taste. It's dry and tart, but not bitter. (using Kirkland Fresh Pressed Juice)

Try a different yeast if thats the only constant between everything. Safale S-04 is similar to nottingham. Also US-05 is a good ale yeast choice, but it doesn't seem to flocculate as well for me. (and it seems finicky about temps - might just be me though)

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

oh...I re-read your post and see you added sugar also...try a batch with no sugar and see if that might be it. I've gotten some off flavors with sugar before. Usually it's a musty taste from white table sugar, but that could be something to look into.

 

[Gilligan]

Thanks for all the input, Pickled Pepper. I use Star San sanitizer. The only other constant is the table sugar. I'll start a gallon tonight without the sugar to see if that is a contributing factor.

Is there a better type of sugar that is less likely to add strange flavors?

 

[Pickled_Pepper]

To be honest, a lot of people just use white sugar and don't have any problems. I tested it on more than one batch with the same results. It had a musty smell and taste.

I use brown sugar and it works for me. I'm too lazy to keep testing with others, I just go with whatever isn't causing problems at the moment. (I'm a right brain brewer)

Dextrose/corn sugar mixes well and doesn't seem to contribute and off flavors, but it's more expensive than plain cane sugar.

 

[oljimmy]

Hey Gilligan, Pepper is right, dextrose is 100% fermentable and leaves virtually no traces of itself. Cane and brown sugars do leave residual flavors because they contain compounds that the yeast cannot eat.

 

[Albionwood]

So other than adding sugar, is there a way to get rid of the bitterness? Is it something that would "age out"?

Probably, yes. Most off-flavors and "roughness" do age out if the cider is well-made, which mainly means keeping air out of it. Give it several months and see if the roughness dissipates.

It's probably not true "bitterness" but a harshness imparted during fermentation, especially if it fermented fast (which to me means less than a month). Cold-conditioning helps a lot with this.

 

[Gilligan]

Thank you, Albionwood - by cold conditioning, do you mean aging it in the fridge?