Letting Wort settle before Boiling

[madscientist451]

So yesterday I started a brew and I knew in advance I wouldn't have time to finish.
I'm doing a 3 gallon BIAB all grain dark mild with 25% oat malt.
I mashed with 2 gallons, did a 1 gallon cold water dunk sparge, let in cool in the snow and 20F outside temp then poured it into a carboy to keep overnight.
My pre-boil volume is low, I normally would have used more sparge water, but I wanted to fit it all in a 3 gallon carboy. I figured I'd just add some more water during the boil. I didn't take a gravity reading, but I'm shooting for a below 4.5% ABV beer.
So this morning, I noticed about 1.5" of solids at the bottom of the carboy and pretty clear wort on top.
I've never tried this before, I usually don't worry about pre-boil clarity, the beer (mostly) clears out later by itself.
So is this a legit way to get really clear wort? The downside is possible infection but in the winter around here I can keep the wort pretty cold.
Also I've introduced more oxygen by dumping the wort into the carboy, I guess I could siphon it next time. I'd also sparge the full amount and use a bigger carboy.

 

[hotbeer]

Sounds legit.

Never read anyone doing this and never thought of it. I'm always too impatient to get it boiling and in the fermenter.

Some other will have to say if there is anything in the sediment that adds anything to the resulting wort during the boil.

Proteins sometimes are said to be beneficial for the yeast, and I'd think the sediment is where the proteins are. But that probably depends on the beer you are making and lots of other things. And I suppose hops adds their own proteins during the boil and if dry hopped.

 

[hotbeer]

Also I've introduced more oxygen by dumping the wort into the carboy,

I don't think that will be an issue at all. You haven't hopped it yet and by the time it comes to a boil, most excess O2 will probably have been driven off.

 

[Bobby_M]

I don't think that will be an issue at all. You haven't hopped it yet and by the time it comes to a boil, most excess O2 will probably have been driven off.

It's such an often repeated error in logic to think that oxygen just dissolves into wort at whatever stage of the brewing process and just waits to be driven off in the boil. Oxidation happens real time and the reactions are not reversible after you remove whatever oxygen is left at the point where you boil. Perhaps an analogy is leaving your firewood in the fire for a while because you can always come back at some point and take it out.

I'm not suggesting the beer that is the topic of this thread is ruined by any means. I'm talking about this specific idea that oxygen exposure can't matter because it will be removed later.

 

[Bobby_M]

So yesterday I started a brew and I knew in advance I wouldn't have time to finish.
I'm doing a 3 gallon BIAB all grain dark mild with 25% oat malt.
I mashed with 2 gallons, did a 1 gallon cold water dunk sparge, let in cool in the snow and 20F outside temp then poured it into a carboy to keep overnight.
My pre-boil volume is low, I normally would have used more sparge water, but I wanted to fit it all in a 3 gallon carboy. I figured I'd just add some more water during the boil. I didn't take a gravity reading, but I'm shooting for a below 4.5% ABV beer.
So this morning, I noticed about 1.5" of solids at the bottom of the carboy and pretty clear wort on top.
I've never tried this before, I usually don't worry about pre-boil clarity, the beer (mostly) clears out later by itself.
So is this a legit way to get really clear wort? The downside is possible infection but in the winter around here I can keep the wort pretty cold.
Also I've introduced more oxygen by dumping the wort into the carboy, I guess I could siphon it next time. I'd also sparge the full amount and use a bigger carboy.
View attachment 756562

In a typical 3 vessel process, the clean wort above all that sediment is typically all that makes it into the boiler especially in a constant recirculated system like a HERMS. The boil itself will still create hot break and then cold break will also form so you'd even have another chance for a settling step before fermentation. That's even easier with a conical since you can let it settle a while, dump and then pitch yeast.

The ongoing question is whether it changes the beer at the end, and if so, is it a positive or negative change.

 

[hopjuice_71]

It's such an often repeated error in logic to think that oxygen just dissolves into wort at whatever stage of the brewing process and just waits to be driven off in the boil. Oxidation happens real time and the reactions are not reversible after you remove whatever oxygen is left at the point where you boil. Perhaps an analogy is leaving your firewood in the fire for a while because you can always come back at some point and take it out.

I'm not suggesting the beer that is the topic of this thread is ruined by any means. I'm talking about this specific idea that oxygen exposure can't matter because it will be removed later.

Spot on. Its too bad it is called "oxidation" because it is actually about electrons and not exclusively about oxygen at all. It just so happens that oxygen is the initial source of electrons in this case, but once they are in the wort, they are in there for good, being passed around, and there is nothing we can do about it ... but the perception of "damage" is subjective.

 

[jrgtr42]

|I've run across people who do run across timing issues and need to split mashing and boiling up. If you're careful, I suppose oxidtion could be minimized, though not eliminated.
My big question, though, is there a difference between letting the stuff settle out pre-boil rather than adding kettle finings and letting the trub / solids settle out then during a whirlpool?

 

[hotbeer]

It's such an often repeated error in logic to think that oxygen just dissolves into wort at whatever stage of the brewing process and just waits to be driven off in the boil. Oxidation happens real time.............

Can you expound on that some more for mine and others educational benefit?

I wasn't equating the aeration the OP mentioned to oxidation per se. Though I did mention hops, and I know that O2 is bad for hop flavors due to oxidation.

I was mainly thinking of the O2 from the aeration as just becoming dissolved in the wort. Not so much that anything oxidized from it. What does oxidize in wort besides hops? And to what extent and when does it become an issue?

 

[Brooothru]

In a typical 3 vessel process, the clean wort above all that sediment is typically all that makes it into the boiler especially in a constant recirculated system like a HERMS. The boil itself will still create hot break and then cold break will also form so you'd even have another chance for a settling step before fermentation. That's even easier with a conical since you can let it settle a while, dump and then pitch yeast.

The ongoing question is whether it changes the beer at the end, and if so, is it a positive or negative change.

This has been my experience lately, except in an all-in-one (Braumeister) rather than a HERMS. With continuous recirculation in the mash, the wort is extremely clear by the end of mash out. After the malt pipe is pulled out and the boil begins, there is very little debris in the wort. By the time the boil is finished and the chill and whirlpool are done, a lot of of hot and cold break has been produced.

There's not a rotating racking arm on the BV so when I pump to the fermenter there's always trub that ends up in the conical. If I let things settle for an hour or so I can dump a quart or more of trub before pitching the yeast. I've thought about crashing the pre-pitch wort to to mid 40s F overnight to get crystal clear wort. I use 'practical' LoDO on the hot side with BrewTan B just before end-of-boil and closed transfer after chill into a sealed fermenter, so I'm not too concerned about O2 pickup (maybe I should be). Infection shouldn't be a major concern if the temperature is <45°F and pH is 4.5.

I haven't tried this "crash, dump and pitch" process yet since I'm not totally convinced it's worth the effort and the (slight) risk of infection or oxidation. I'm sensing the need for a test brew.