Let's Remember Some Beers (In Memoriam: Old Whales)

[stupac2]

I believe brian4beer has brought this up before, but there's legitimate questions to be asked about the provenance of the "Dave" that HotD has been selling in recent (2010s) years, such as the bottles that are listed as available for on-site consumption at $1500. By which I specifically mean that it's not the same juice as the original 1994 batch that won the legendary 1998 Toronado barleywine competition, but rather Alan Sprints has rebrewed it on the sly in various intervening years.

Eh, maybe, but based on the GrumpyOldTroll Dave tasting there's no way that beer wasn't old. It's just hard to fake something tasting old (but not, like, grossly oxidized), and it really did. Maybe it's not from 1994 but it's from 1999, hard to get too cheesed about that IMO.

I think the other explanation is way more likely, Alan (or Dave, he's also been egesting old bottles for mad cash) had them squirreled away, didn't know what to do with them, and then realized he was sitting on $$$$$.

 

[trickytunadicky]

We can start a Solera Dave conspiracy.

 

[RyanG1]

 

[fogindex]

We can start a Solera Dave conspiracy.

Would be tough as the barrel head of Dave is mounted on the wall at the Toronado.

 

[davey101]

I believe brian4beer has brought this up before, but there's legitimate questions to be asked about the provenance of the "Dave" that HotD has been selling in recent (2010s) years, such as the bottles that are listed as available for on-site consumption at $1500. By which I specifically mean that it's not the same juice as the original 1994 batch that won the legendary 1998 Toronado barleywine competition, but rather Alan Sprints has rebrewed it on the sly in various intervening years.

There was supposedly 100 gallons left afterwards. That's a little over 1,000 375ml bottles. Not too unreasonable.

 

[lb304854]

I believe brian4beer has brought this up before, but there's legitimate questions to be asked about the provenance of the "Dave" that HotD has been selling in recent (2010s) years, such as the bottles that are listed as available for on-site consumption at $1500. By which I specifically mean that it's not the same juice as the original 1994 batch that won the legendary 1998 Toronado barleywine competition, but rather Alan Sprints has rebrewed it on the sly in various intervening years.

So the only way to be sure is to get an old bottle, pre-HotD styled label.

 

[brian4beer]

I believe brian4beer has brought this up before, but there's legitimate questions to be asked about the provenance of the "Dave" that HotD has been selling in recent (2010s) years, such as the bottles that are listed as available for on-site consumption at $1500. By which I specifically mean that it's not the same juice as the original 1994 batch that won the legendary 1998 Toronado barleywine competition, but rather Alan Sprints has rebrewed it on the sly in various intervening years.

There’s no way to know for certain. I have had it several times including with GrumpyOldTroll. It is an interesting beer for sure, but not one that I would call good. Also agree w stupac2 that it did certainly taste old. For me, it is at the very least a bit thought-provoking about possibilities of secondary secret batches produced after it seemed to become much more plentiful as whale hunting madness reached epically stupid levels (myself included in said stupidity). Or maybe he was just sitting on it for unknown reasons all those years and it is pure coincidence....

 

[Stubs]

There was supposedly 100 gallons left afterwards. That's a little over 1,000 375ml bottles. Not too unreasonable.

You should know of all people.

 

[Lutter]

These sat around forever

At Gabriel's Liquor in San Marcos, TX there has been a single bottle of Tactical Nuclear Penguin sitting on the shelf for 7+ years (whenever that thing first came out).

I haven't been by in 6 months, but my 6th sense tells me it's still sitting there.

 

[infi]

Still catching up on the rest of this thread, but gotta tag Speedwayjim in here – we were just literally having this reminiscent convo a few nights ago at his place. Makes me miss the OG '09 BA text forums, the camaraderie, and how fun things were.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

Still catching up on the rest of this thread, but gotta tag Speedwayjim in here – we were just literally having this reminiscent convo a few nights ago at his place. Makes me miss the OG '09 BA text forums, the camaraderie, and how fun things were.

One thing I've been thinking about, and this is probably diffused through the rose-tinted lens of my nostalgia, but a part of me feels like the shift to cash valuation as the measure for all trade exchanges has cheapened what used to be our hobby.

Back when the no-eBay avatar was unironic, if you wanted to trade for a rare beer you had to consider what the experience of drinking that beer was worth in terms of similar experiences. You had to have a base of knowledge to wade into these rarer beers whose value and importance would be lost on whomever didn't, for instance, already drink all of the more gettable Cantillon/Fantome/etc offerings before demanding to try the rare, exotic one. Now any dipshit with cash that wants to be noticed can give their ******, uninformed opinion about Don Quixote tacked to their IG pic.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not a no-eBay avatar. I get the value of offering cash instead of some complicated barter bid tailored to a stranger, but I guess it feels like the gamesmanship is gone.

 

[stupac2]

One thing I've been thinking about, and this is probably diffused through the rose-tinted lens of my nostalgia, but a part of me feels like the shift to cash valuation as the measure for all trade exchanges has cheapened what used to be our hobby.

Back when the no-eBay avatar was unironic, if you wanted to trade for a rare beer you had to consider what the experience of drinking that beer was worth in terms of similar experiences. You had to have a base of knowledge to wade into these rarer beers whose value and importance would be lost on whomever didn't, for instance, already drink all of the more gettable Cantillon/Fantome/etc offerings before demanding to try the rare, exotic one. Now any dipshit with cash that wants to be noticed can give their ******, uninformed opinion about Don Quixote tacked to their IG pic.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not a no-eBay avatar. I get the value of offering cash instead of some complicated barter bid tailored to a stranger, but I guess it feels like the gamesmanship is gone.

There's also a line of psychological research dealing with the way people treat market and non-market transactions as different (if you were asked to bring wine to a dinner party you'd never show up and say "I didn't have time to get wine here's $50"). I got into this right as that transition was happening and have made that point in the past, that it's a different dynamic.

But, honestly, I think the main difference is just scale. Way back in the day there just weren't that many people who were into this ****, and it was possible to know a substantial fraction of them. There were fewer releases, they were all cheaper, and the number of people who wanted them was smaller. There was way less incentive to try to monetize from pretty much every end. It didn't scale up.

 

[Stubs]

There's also a line of psychological research dealing with the way people treat market and non-market transactions as different (if you were asked to bring wine to a dinner party you'd never show up and say "I didn't have time to get wine here's $50"). I got into this right as that transition was happening and have made that point in the past, that it's a different dynamic.

But, honestly, I think the main difference is just scale. Way back in the day there just weren't that many people who were into this ****, and it was possible to know a substantial fraction of them. There were fewer releases, they were all cheaper, and the number of people who wanted them was smaller. There was way less incentive to try to monetize from pretty much every end. It didn't scale up.

What makes no sense to me is that the availability is so mixh higher, yet people pay inflated prices for certain options. Like I can't drink this somewhat limited hazy IPA or pastry stout, I gotta overpay for this other one.

 

[trickytunadicky]

A wise man once said: “tickers gotta tick.”

 

[duketheredeemer]

All the barrel aged Deschutes beers used to be highly coveted up here, but now they sit on shelves at Costco forever.

We really didn't have crazy whales up this way. Just Red Peak.

I almost forgot
RIP the Haiku thread
Red Peak verboten

 

[tennispl]

Then, I guess people forgot Malvasia Rosso existed...

Just about to mention this. I’ve wanted to try it for so long, I’ve literally had a dream about it.








Super weird.

 

[user 306349]

re: Dave - the word I have heard is that Alan has a keg(s) and fills up one of those soy sauce bottles and slaps a label on it whenever someone orders a bottle for on-site.

 

[FoudreGuy]

re: Dave - the word I have heard is that Alan has a keg(s) and fills up one of those soy sauce bottles and slaps a label on it whenever someone orders a bottle for on-site.

Sounds about right.

 

[FoudreGuy]

I almost forgot
RIP the Haiku thread
Red Peak verboten

No
Rare Beer
In WA

 

[KevSal]

Just Red Peak.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

Then, I guess people forgot Malvasia Rosso existed...

Just about to mention this. I’ve wanted to try it for so long, I’ve literally had a dream about it.

I had actually won a Malvasia in a razzle several years ago, but never drank it. I ended up flipping that and all of my other "rare" bottles a few months later to make a big buy of "reg-ass goozies" from BIAB and a one-year payment on a wine locker.

 

[boogercrack]

I had actually won a Malvasia in a razzle several years ago, but never drank it. I ended up flipping that and all of my other "rare" bottles a few months later to make a big buy of "reg-ass goozies" from BIAB and a one-year payment on a wine locker.

One of the things I miss the most about days of lambic past was the BIAB 18x750mL 3F bulk packs only being 99€. For like $13/bottle delivered to my door in 2012 to 2013 or so I drank so much goddamned OG. Thus began my descent into finally realizing that if all I ever drank was a dickload of 3F OG and bcs, which are both readily available, I'd be totally happy. Things got easier.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

One of the things I miss the most about days of lambic past was the BIAB 18x750mL 3F bulk packs only being 99€. For like $13/bottle delivered to my door in 2012 to 2013 or so I drank so much goddamned OG. Thus began my descent into finally realizing that if all I ever drank was a dickload of 3F OG and bcs, which are both readily available, I'd be totally happy. Things got easier.

And Girardin 750mL's were even cheaper!

 

[yeahnatenelson]

One of the things I miss the most about days of lambic past was the BIAB 18x750mL 3F bulk packs only being 99€. For like $13/bottle delivered to my door in 2012 to 2013 or so I drank so much goddamned OG. Thus began my descent into finally realizing that if all I ever drank was a dickload of 3F OG and bcs, which are both readily available, I'd be totally happy. Things got easier.

But yeah, to your point, I had a 3-year-old bottle 3F OG at a bar that was so good I committed to stop chasing rare ****. It was the best beer I drank that year.

I definitely overpay for stuff still, like a recent magnum binge that was probably not well thought out, but the exhausting how-do-I-flip-x-and-y-for-z efforts for beers that are, at best, almost as good as standard-issue 3F.

 

[trickytunadicky]

But yeah, to your point, I had a 3-year-old bottle 3F OG at a bar that was so good I committed to stop chasing rare ****. It was the best beer I drank that year.

I definitely overpay for stuff still, like a recent magnum binge that was probably not well thought out, but the exhausting how-do-I-flip-x-and-y-for-z efforts for beers that are, at best, almost as good as standard-issue 3F.

Omg yes. Especially when so much rare **** is disappointing as ****.

 

[stupac2]

But yeah, to your point, I had a 3-year-old bottle 3F OG at a bar that was so good I committed to stop chasing rare ****. It was the best beer I drank that year.

I definitely overpay for stuff still, like a recent magnum binge that was probably not well thought out, but the exhausting how-do-I-flip-x-and-y-for-z efforts for beers that are, at best, almost as good as standard-issue 3F.

This has been my attitude for a while. If I can get stuff without a ton of effort, hurray! But there are very, very few whales that are qualitatively different from readily available beers, so why chase them down? It's moderately convenient that everyone seems to have switched to hazy IPAs and pastry stouts, which I could not possibly be less interested in chasing down. Would it be cool if it were back like 2012 and I could with moderate effort track down every Cantillon/3F release on shelves and trade for whalezbro? Sure, but 3F OG is still easy to find, so it's not a big loss.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

Omg yes. Especially when so much rare **** is disappointing as ****.

Many sparkling turds. Many bright flashes. And when you get into older beers, like that razzle Malvasia*, who knows how many people have FedEx'd it, or how it's been kept in its lifetime. Gets dicey.


*The guy that bought it went out of his way to contact me and say how good it was. TBH, I'm glad it wasn't a dud. I definitely had my concerns, which is why I sold it...

 

[ASUBeer]

A wise man, MordorMongo , learned me many moons ago that 3F OG was better than almost all Cantillon stuff. I haven’t looked back since.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

Did we talk about this one yet?

 

[thebandit1]

Did we talk about this one yet?

Picture should have been a test tube or small vial.