Let's Remember Some Beers (In Memoriam: Old Whales)

[matedog]

I have a hard time imagining a sour beer from a non-"premier lambic producer" fetching that kind of money. The secondary market is still very overheated but the high hundreds figures are driven by lambic new-monies and, ehem, stout afficionados. Old AWA's do not yield the bucks, not even the old C&C La Folies*.

However, this does make me wonder how some of the barrel-fermented HF saisons (Ann, Art, etc.) will fare in ten years' time.




* I get that Falling Rock continues to elude a few of you, but this seems more like a matter of them simply not being many (any?) bottles left.

Cable Car Kriek?

 

[MikeG1]

I have a hard time imagining a sour beer from a non-"premier lambic producer" fetching that kind of money. The secondary market is still very overheated but the high hundreds figures are driven by lambic new-monies and, ehem, stout afficionados. Old AWA's do not yield the bucks, not even the old C&C La Folies*.

However, this does make me wonder how some of the barrel-fermented HF saisons (Ann, Art, etc.) will fare in ten years' time.




* I get that Falling Rock continues to elude a few of you, but this seems more like a matter of them simply not being many (any?) bottles left.

I wouldn't expect any of the HF BA stuff to fare well past 5 years or so. It'd be interesting to taste a 10 year old Ann (probably an oxidized shell of itself), but that would require the luxury of having multiple Anns and amazing self control (or amnesia).

 

[yeahnatenelson]

I wouldn't expect any of the HF BA stuff to fare well past 5 years or so. It'd be interesting to taste a 10 year old Ann (probably an oxidized shell of itself), but that would require the luxury of having multiple Anns and amazing self control (or amnesia).

I've gotta believe pH1 bro forgot about this bottle for a long time. He might've gotten his asking price four or five years ago. Now... hm.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

Cable Car Kriek?

That's fair! I totally forgot about CCK. How old is that now?

 

[KevSal]

That's fair! I totally forgot about CCK. How old is that now?

i think 2011? so 7 years at this point

last i heard its still amazing (atleast on tap), I had it back in 2012 and loved it

shoot talking about old LA beers, has anyone mentioned yellow bus? wonder if that one would bring a high price tag now

 

[SeaWatchman]

That Southampton blackberry lambic sold for well over $1000 in July. Maybe even over $2000.

 

[BadJustin]

I wouldn't expect any of the HF BA stuff to fare well past 5 years or so. It'd be interesting to taste a 10 year old Ann (probably an oxidized shell of itself), but that would require the luxury of having multiple Anns and amazing self control (or amnesia).

Agreed. They don't stand the test of time so well. I mean I have had 2013 bottles that were great and some that sucked. Depends on the bottle I imagine.

 

[Jnorton00]

i think 2011? so 7 years at this point

last i heard its still amazing (atleast on tap), I had it back in 2012 and loved it

shoot talking about old LA beers, has anyone mentioned yellow bus? wonder if that one would bring a high price tag now

A fun thread to revisit.

https://www.talkbeer.com/community/threads/the-im-pouring-bus-bro-thread.837/

 

[stakem1]

That Southampton blackberry lambic sold for well over $1000 in July. Maybe even over $2000.

Long Island lambic is the rarest of lambic

When the secondary market price crests 2500 maybe ill sell one of my bottles. i trust julian will alert me when this occurs




















just kidden, ill get drunk and take it to the face

 

[MikeG1]

Agreed. They don't stand the test of time so well. I mean I have had 2013 bottles that were great and some that sucked. Depends on the bottle I imagine.

2013 saisons kegged is another story. Those Arthur and Anna 2013s at FOFA were the absolute tits this year.

 

[BadJustin]

2013 saisons kegged is another story. Those Arthur and Anna 2013s at FOFA were the absolute tits this year.

Honestly, that mostly what I drank that day.

 

[MikeG1]

Honestly, that mostly what I drank that day.

Besides 2013 Old Milwaukee

 

[BadJustin]

Besides 2013 Old Milwaukee

Also true.

 

[KevSal]

A fun thread to revisit.

https://www.talkbeer.com/community/threads/the-im-pouring-bus-bro-thread.837/

that MS paint cartoon on page 3 always makes me chuckle!

I remember their was a Trouble Brewing cartoon about yellow bus that was hilarious. Yellow bus was being poured at some Christmas party at the exact same time their saint and sinners were at their party drinking regular stuff


anyway i cant find it, but i did find this one tho, i miss these comics

 

[Jnorton00]

that MS paint cartoon on page 3 always makes me chuckle!

It's a classic.

 

[KevSal]

It's a classic.

Cobra commander logo eyes really brings it all together

 

[Stewmeister91]

that MS paint cartoon on page 3 always makes me chuckle!

I remember their was a Trouble Brewing cartoon about yellow bus that was hilarious. Yellow bus was being poured at some Christmas party at the exact same time their saint and sinners were at their party drinking regular stuff


anyway i cant find it, but i did find this one tho, i miss these comics

cartoon whales

Was bummed when they stopped doing this. Some hilarious cartoons that are now time capsules of a much different time in beer

 

[yeahnatenelson]

That Southampton blackberry lambic sold for well over $1000 in July. Maybe even over $2000.

Weird, I couldn't find it on lambic.info. Sounds like fake news to me...

 

[SAISON FUCK]

Weird, I couldn't find it on lambic.info. Sounds like fake news to me...

Bruh doesn't even know that it is made with black raspberries, not blackberries. How is that for some .info?

 

[yeahnatenelson]

i think 2011? so 7 years at this point

last i heard its still amazing (atleast on tap), I had it back in 2012 and loved it

shoot talking about old LA beers, has anyone mentioned yellow bus? wonder if that one would bring a high price tag now

I would think the main problem with Yellow Bus is provenance. How certain would you be that the bottle you purchased is real? It's a beer that's been used as a bargaining chip for so long that you can't be sure who owned it or what's in it save for the one Tomme autographed for Joel, but who really wants to give that guy money?

 

[stakem1]

I would think the main problem with Yellow Bus is provenance. How certain would you be that the bottle you purchased is real? It's a beer that's been used as a bargaining chip for so long that you can't be sure who owned it or what's in it save for the one Tomme autographed for Joel, but who really wants to give that guy money?

if other lost abbey sours age anything like the DDG ‘13 I recently opened...you are better off using it to remove nail polish than consuming it

 

[mjohnson171]

Interesting point Nate. How has there not been more situations/stories come out about counterfeit bottles? Remember about 2012 where the Jean Chris Nomad counterfeit started a conversation where a few more examples came out.

I know these counterfeits are very rare occurrence, but with the increase of the black market, especially a more anonymous market like the BBB sites which doesn't have the accountability of their peers like a site like TB/RB/BA. Seems like with more people in the hobby, more beers that are sought-after, it stands to reason that a few bad apple counterfeiters would slip into the mix.

Maybe it's is happening, people just aren't catching them, Maybe because these newer people never had the originals they can't tell the difference between a real vs fake. Curious indeed.

 

[KevSal]

Interesting point Nate. How has there not been more situations/stories come out about counterfeit bottles? Remember about 2012 where the Jean Chris Nomad counterfeit started a conversation where a few more examples came out.

I know these counterfeits are very rare occurrence, but with the increase of the black market, especially a more anonymous market like the BBB sites which doesn't have the accountability of their peers like a site like TB/RB/BA. Seems like with more people in the hobby, more beers that are sought-after, it stands to reason that a few bad apple counterfeiters would slip into the mix.

Maybe it's is happening, people just aren't catching them, Maybe because these newer people never had the originals they can't tell the difference between a real vs fake. Curious indeed.

i think there was counterfeit bottles of yellow bus at the time right?

then there was a huge fiasco around counterfeit bottles of godl waxes assassin (refilled with founders ris) and fake mexican cakes. this as back in 2013/2014 i bet its happening now too.

 

[iong516]

Wasn't there just an issue with a green blaeber that got razzled?

 

[yeahnatenelson]

Wasn't there just an issue with a green blaeber that got razzled?

Yeah...

For you non-facebook folks: a month or so ago somebody posted to one of the bigger lambic groups with their pour of Blabaer that was, like, blue-green. It was flat, tasted weird (per the OP) and looked like Kool-Aid.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

i think there was counterfeit bottles of yellow bus at the time right?

then there was a huge fiasco around counterfeit bottles of gold waxed assassin (refilled with founders ris) and fake mexican cakes. this as back in 2013/2014 i bet its happening now too.

Yes, there was at least one counterfeit Yellow Bus. Since there is no label or markings on the bottle all you had to do was peel the label off of a bottle of Red Barn to make a compelling fake. Of course, as soon as it's opened the fake is obvious.

 

[stupac2]

Maybe it's is happening, people just aren't catching them, Maybe because these newer people never had the originals they can't tell the difference between a real vs fake. Curious indeed.

I don't think there's much "maybe" here. It would be astonishing to me if this weren't pervasive, and catching it would be nearly impossible, especially for anything old/rare where it's unlikely that someone's trying it for the second time. And even if someone were, the power of suggestion is extremely strong and with natural bottle/blend/aging variation you can't ever know, at least if the forger was at all careful.

I still find it baffling that people drop so much money for these bottles given how trivial it would be to fake anything. Paying like 3-5 times markup for something relatively common? Whatever, if I had more money I'd probably get my lambic that way rather than trading. Paying $1k for an undifferentiated stout or old lambic of dubious provenance? Insane.

 

[yeahnatenelson]

Maybe it's is happening, people just aren't catching them, Maybe because these newer people never had the originals they can't tell the difference between a real vs fake. Curious indeed.

With one exception I can't think of many fakes that even attempt to taste like the right thing. Usually it's just a volume/color match with another beer, and since the fakers rarely use beer guns or any kind of sanitation they're usually oxidized and infected.

That exception being a bottle of Crianza Helena that Dunt opened at a Cantillon share a few years ago. Once he tasted it he was pretty certain someone just slapped a Crianza label (not hard to come by, btw) onto a 2008 Classic Gueuze. The big difference between then and now is that the Cantillon bottling dates are incredibly well documented on some website whose name I can't bother to remember.

 

[Dunt1]

With one exception I can't think of many fakes that even attempt to taste like the right thing. Usually it's just a volume/color match with another beer, and since the fakers rarely use beer guns or any kind of sanitation they're usually oxidized and infected.

That exception being a bottle of Crianza Helena that Dunt opened at a Cantillon share a few years ago. Once he tasted it he was pretty certain someone just slapped a Crianza label (not hard to come by, btw) onto a 2008 Classic Gueuze. The big difference between then and now is that the Cantillon bottling dates are incredibly well documented on some website whose name I can't bother to remember.

I still get pissed off when I think about that bottle

 

[mjohnson171]

Just goes to show the lack of due diligence, or stupidity, of people willing to blindly Paypal someone hundreds of dollars for a bottle they don't even ask provence or double check references of trader.