Legality of my Operation

[A4J]

Worst case scenario is that the AHJ (Zoning) would be notified by the inspector not having jurisdiction and another Inspector would come out to serve a Cease and Disist citing fines until a permit is established to allow the secondary use and occupancy.

One of the biggest oversight I see on a daily basis is a landlord being familiar enough about zoning to know that a use is allowed in a certain zone but not smart enough to realize that it still must be permitted.

I don't know about other parts of the country, but here, there are certain land-uses that are allowed within each zone that you don't need to get a permit for. On the other hand, our zoning codes are written such that anything not explicitly listed in the zoning code is actually prohibited. As a zoning administrator, I would say that a lot of the armchair lawyering in this thread has some merit. If I were the owner of the business or the OP, I would argue that homebrewing does not create more impact than having an employee kitchen/lunchroom in the warehouse.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

I'd say your biggest threat would be fire inspections. They aren't going to be happy to see a propane tank indoors. Are you actually brewing inside the warehouse? I know it's a likely a large space and CO isn't likely an issue. Try explaining that to the fire chief.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I don't know about other parts of the country, but here, there are certain land-uses that are allowed within each zone that you don't need to get a permit for. On the other hand, our zoning codes are written such that anything not explicitly listed in the zoning code is actually prohibited. As a zoning administrator, I would say that a lot of the armchair lawyering in this thread has some merit. If I were the owner of the business or the OP, I would argue that homebrewing does not create more impact than having an employee kitchen/lunchroom in the warehouse.

So, if both retail and office are specifically permitted in "Zone X", and the existing space under consideration is a whitebox (meaning no additional construction required), was previously occupied as Retail, and is proposed to be occupied as Office,

A land use change permit would not be required? How about a more extreme situation where both uses a listed as permitted in the zone but have signifigant differences in parking requirements?

 

[rico567]

The OP reflects a level of concern for the tenant, which may be well founded. Concern at that level should be conveyed to the landlord. Put all cards face up and ask if you may continue; if he says "no," then move on. That simplifies things.

 

[Phunhog]

The homebrewing aspect is irrelevant. If your hobby was making birdhouses or working on cars and you did it in a ceramic studio would it matter. Of course not! The point is that it is a hobby and not a business. I can brew beer all day every day at my house even though it isn't zoned for alcohol production. As far as the propane issue.....ok say you won't store it there. Bring it with you everytime you brew. The law says you can't store flammable liquids....not that you can't have them onsite.

 

[A4J]

So, if both retail and office are specifically permitted in "Zone X", and the existing space under consideration is a whitebox (meaning no additional construction required), was previously occupied as Retail, and is proposed to be occupied as Office,

A land use change permit would not be required? How about a more extreme situation where both uses a listed as permitted in the zone but have signifigant differences in parking requirements?

Correct. No land use permit is required. We do have a conditional use permit process which is usually where the difference in parking requirements show up. In the rare instance that there is a parking difference in permitted uses, parking requirements are "enforced" through the business license process.

[sorry for the threadjack]

 

[MalFet]

The homebrewing aspect is irrelevant. If your hobby was making birdhouses or working on cars and you did it in a ceramic studio would it matter. Of course not! The point is that it is a hobby and not a business. I can brew beer all day every day at my house even though it isn't zoned for alcohol production. As far as the propane issue.....ok say you won't store it there. Bring it with you everytime you brew. The law says you can't store flammable liquids....not that you can't have them onsite.

The homebrewing aspect is irrelevant. But what is very relevant is that making beer or birdhouses was not negotiated in the original lease. If the landlord objects to what your doing on his property in violation of the legal agreement you made with him, the ins and outs of homebrew law won't protect you.

 

[Slipgate]

The homebrewing aspect is irrelevant. But what is very relevant is that making beer or birdhouses was not negotiated in the original lease. If the landlord objects to what your doing on his property in violation of the legal agreement you made with him, the ins and outs of homebrew law won't protect you.

....and commence back-pedaling....

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Correct. No land use permit is required. We do have a conditional use permit process which is usually where the difference in parking requirements show up. In the rare instance that there is a parking difference in permitted uses, parking requirements are "enforced" through the business license process.

[sorry for the threadjack]

Ahhh. I find many jurisdictions impose a land use change permit. We are one of those. Our conditional uses typical impose additional screening or operational restrictions.

 

[MalFet]

....and commence back-pedaling....

If you think I'm back-pedaling even a little bit here, you didn't understand what I wrote.

 

[hopsalot]

I think slipgate ate the brown acid

 

[Phunhog]

The homebrewing aspect is irrelevant. But what is very relevant is that making beer or birdhouses was not negotiated in the original lease. If the landlord objects to what your doing on his property in violation of the legal agreement you made with him, the ins and outs of homebrew law won't protect you.

True....I guess it ultimately is determined by the lease agreement. Does it stipulate that the ONLY action that can take place in the said rental unit is activities that have to do with ceramics?

 

[MalFet]

True....I guess it ultimately is determined by the lease agreement. Does it stipulate that the ONLY action that can take place in the said rental unit is activities that have to do with ceramics?

Nobody here knows for sure, of course, but stipulations that a commercial/industrial property only be used for the originally negotiated purposes are boilerplate-standard in leases of this sort. It would be strange if this lease didn't include similar language.

It's totally possible that the landlord wouldn't care. At the same time, there's no downside to asking. If he says no, that's a good sign that it would have been a very bad idea to do it behind his back, anyway.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

The brewing aspect may or may not be an issue. You can't really call it homebrewing when it's not done in the home.

As others have said, you need to talk to the tenant and make a joint decision to talk to a lawyer with the lease in hand and find out what is permitted. Your IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPA aged on dog anuses (anii?) could end up costing your pal his business and a ton of money.

 

[Phunhog]

The brewing aspect may or may not be an issue. You can't really call it homebrewing when it's not done in the home.

As others have said, you need to talk to the tenant and make a joint decision to talk to a lawyer with the lease in hand and find out what is permitted. Your IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIPA aged on dog anuses (anii?) could end up costing your pal his business and a ton of money.

I think homebrewing is a pretty loose term. I know of lots of clubs that have group brews that take place at a LHBS, brewery, parking lots, campgrounds, etc. I don't think it means strictly your house.

 

[Pilgarlic]

My company owns and leases a bunch of retail/office. I write the leases. I ALWAYS include a limitation on use "Lessor warrants that the premises will be used only for the purposes of a (insert business)." Violation constitutes a default under the lease.

 

[daksin]

Just for information, the law says that homebrew can not be consumed OR TRANSPORTED outside of the brewer's home. Home is specific in the law, as far as I know. The only exception is transport directly from the brewer's home to a competition. Is it legal to supply homebrew to a wedding that's not at your house? No. Is it likely to get you fined? Probably not. In a place where there are regular inspections being conducted by some sort of official, it's probably a good idea not to brew there.

 

[Phunhog]

Just for information, the law says that homebrew can not be consumed OR TRANSPORTED outside of the brewer's home. Home is specific in the law, as far as I know. The only exception is transport directly from the brewer's home to a competition. Is it legal to supply homebrew to a wedding that's not at your house? No. Is it likely to get you fined? Probably not. In a place where there are regular inspections being conducted by some sort of official, it's probably a good idea not to brew there.

Actually in CA that is not true...http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pages/government-affairs/statutes/california

Homebrew can be removed and used in competitions, tastings, and judgings. I poured homebrew at a commercial beer festival last summer. I had the event organizer check with ABC prior to this and it was approved. My homebrew club was also there pouring homebrew. I think the reason it is allowed is that I am not selling it and I am only pouring 3 oz. tasters.

 

[Dan]

The OP reflects a level of concern for the tenant, which may be well founded. Concern at that level should be conveyed to the landlord. Put all cards face up and ask if you may continue; if he says "no," then move on. That simplifies things.

I agree with Rico. It's an honest, uncomplicated approach and good start. If the tenant is overwhelmed by possible legal ramnifications and doesn't want to dwelve into the hassle it might bring he can tell the OP to cease and desist homebrewing. The OP certainly doesn't sound like a fellow who would rebel against that decision as he has already stated his concern for the tennants well being.

 

[gfd622]

Who here can brew beer at work? I know I can't, but I'm sure some of you may be able to. I'd just be careful with this one. As an EPA person, I can't throw away certain things at my work that I can throw away at home (the rules are different for homes vs. businesses). So the rules aren't easily transferable, even though it's obvious what the intentions are.

Good luck

 

[dacaldera]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of the input. It has been more than helpful and I definately need to stop until I get verification from the landlord. I have a copy of the lease in my hands right now and have reviewed it. It doesn't seem to say anything that would prevent me from homebrewing, as long as it is in accordinace with the law. The attached image is an excerpt from the lease of importance.

 

[dacaldera]

OOps, my message was reposted 4 times!!

 

[dacaldera]

Oops my message was posted 4 times. Where is the delete button?

 

[MalFet]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all of the input. It has been more than helpful and I definately need to stop until I get verification from the landlord. I have a copy of the lease in my hands right now and have reviewed it. It doesn't seem to say anything that would prevent me from homebrewing, as long as it is in accordinace with the law. The attached image is an excerpt from the lease of importance.

5.1 explicitly disallows any use but warehouse, distribution, and general office purposes. Sorry man. If you want to continue, it's really on you to talk to the landlord.

 

[jkendal]

my advice would be to not take the advice of anyone on this forum and talk to a legal professional.

Yes, yes, yes.