Leap Year 2012?

[lawpaw]

Meadowfoam is one of my favorite honeys. I've used it with cocoa nibs and really liked the combination, but I'm not sure about using it in a Bochet. I haven't made one yet, but I wonder if you'd lose those wonderfully unique flavors after a couple hours of boiling.

BTW - I like the idea of a leap year bochet.

Meadowfoam is suppose to be one of the best honeys for baking because heating the honey accentuates the flavors.

I haven't made mead with it yet, but have baked with it. Personally I don't taste the real marshmellowy flavors until it is cooked, raw it is all vanilla to me (but good).

I imagine making it into a bochet will reduce the aroma.

Do you suggest nibs over powder? I'm considering aging on D47 lees.

 

[PaddyMurphy]

I'd be willing to try an acerglyn or a lavender metheglin. Need to test out those 6 gallon carboys I've got.

 

[Insomniac]

Looks like lots of people are interested in the whole Chocolate Bochet idea, certainly sounds like a cheaper experiment than trying to find enough maple syrup so I've ordered me some Cocoa nibs .
Does anyone have a good recipe?

 

[cgenebrewer]

Okay so I am in for whatever project. I really like the idea of a choco bochet.

Anyone here with Bochet experience who wants to put forward a recipe?

Should we as a board agree on something?
Bochet?
Choco?
High SG?
Xtreme Deliciousness?!

 

[BoxMan]

I want to try this, but I don't think I've got the skill to make a bochet. Afraid I'll burn the honey.

But I'm willing to give it a shot, because it sounds delicious.

Quick question about the nibs - roasted or raw? Also, how many / much per gallon?

Edit: I'd recommend nibs over powder. You'd need to add the powder to the water while you're heating the honey, and I've read that boiling can separate it out / mess it up somehow.

I'm probably just going to make the bochet, rack it onto the nibs for secondary, and let it sit there for a year or two to break down the oils.

 

[WIMARIPA]

I personally would prefer to avoid crossing the streams as I have neither done a bochet or a chocolate mead so I'd be up for a simple pure version of either, but if everyone is down for chocolate bochet I could always set aside a gallon of a bochet batch with some cocoa nibs for some leap year love.

I would think the recipe would look something like this:

Honey (whatever you got, the heat will likely kill a lot of the varietal flavor) 3 lbs/gallon
water to final volume
Yeast (D47 has worked well for me in the past, anybody got better ideas?)
Yeast nutrient/ energizer

1. Heat honey slowly on stove for several hours until very dark and marshmallowy smell coming with perhaps small puff of smoke coming from the bubbles.

2. Making sure you use a pot with at least 3x the volume of your honey add water very slowly being careful of boil overs.

3. Rehydrate yeast and add to mixture once it has reached a safe pitching temp.

4. Primary ferment with SNA.

IF DOING CHOCOLATE
Rack to secondary over cocoa product (I would use nibs although I never have, does anybody have a suggestion for how much (I was thinking 4oz/gallon)? or for a good source?)
Rack off cocoa nibs after 1 month,

6. Bulk age racking as necessary, bottle when clear

 

[WIMARIPA]

Missed the previous post, would you really leave it on the nibs for a year? That seems like a long time to me but as I said I've never used the nibs before.

 

[Tyrone]

in

 

[WineIsRed]

I like the idea of a chocolate bochet. I think this would be challenging enough to be worthy of a 4-year effort.

I suspect that there will be significant variation to how everyone is able to caramelize the honey. I've never done this, and it looks challenging.

Just an idea – but rather than have everyone agree to use the exact same recipe, what about simply agreeing on a theme (such as “bochet” or “choco-bochet”, and have each of us post our specific recipes and try things as we see fit?

I've made a couple chocolate meads in the past – I usually add raisins and tea for nutrient and tannin in the primary (in addition to SNA), and usually some lemon juice as well. I also use ec-1118 and start with an OG of ~ 1.140.

I've always used cocoa powder, but agree that it does make a mess and is difficult to mix. I have heard that nibs do a good job of imparting chocolate aroma, but aren't nearly as good at imparting flavor as powder. I've never used nibs before, but I have a couple pounds on hand.

Also, most things with chocolate also include some vanilla, as the flavors work very well together...

… just thinking out loud.

 

[Bowow0708]

Well all is well with everyones plans to make chocolate bochet meads but sadly i cant make one this year unless you count my Dwójniak which was made in december last year with an OG of 1.175-1.180 but i doubt that it would be a true leap year mead since it is 3 months early. and also since i am just a beginner i only have 2 carboys which i got from my kit and one 1 gal from some apple juice from a organic food store. and i need both for my sweet mead for the rackings between them for aging and clearing.

Also maybe going along the lines of bochet, is anyone apart from me thinking of a bochet braggot stout/porter? the marshmallow and the roastyness of the burnt honey would accentuate the chocolatyness and malts in the braggot also lending a darker color for the braggot. if anyone wants to make a recipe for this let me know! this may be a breakthrough of a Braggot Bochet combination!

 

[BoxMan]

Missed the previous post, would you really leave it on the nibs for a year? That seems like a long time to me but as I said I've never used the nibs before.

I dunno. Just everything I've read says that the cocoa has oils that take a long time to break down if you want to get the "full effect" / flavor of the chocolate. I'm assuming that nibs are probably more complex than powder in this case, probably taking longer.

But again, no experience. Just basing it off of what I've read.

 

[BoxMan]

I've always used cocoa powder, but agree that it does make a mess and is difficult to mix. I have heard that nibs do a good job of imparting chocolate aroma, but aren't nearly as good at imparting flavor as powder.

hey, that's good to know. would you recommend adding it in primary or secondary? And about how long do you leave it on the powder / lees?

 

[WineIsRed]

hey, that's good to know. would you recommend adding it in primary or secondary? And about how long do you leave it on the powder / lees?

I've used it mostly in primary, and then added a little more in secondary, but I think that was a mistake. You'll lose a great deal of all the chocolatey goodness during active fermentation (especially if degassing during SNA, and using a robust yeast like ec-1118).

I'm not sure about the cocoa powder vs. nibs difference in flavor and aroma, but I have read it a few places. I think it might just come down to time – cocoa powder has vastly more surface area than nibs, so maybe it would just take nibs more time to impart the same level of flavor??

In my batches, I put 1 – 1.5 pounds of cocoa powder in primary (6gal batch) and I left it there for 1 – 3 months. There was an enormous amount of sediment, and I had to top off with a large amount of water. I'm thinking that it might be better to use a smaller amount of powder in primary (maybe 0.5lb after SNA is done), and then after 3 months racking on top of a pound of nibs in secondary to sit for a year.

All this relates to a “normal” chocolate mead. I've never made a bochet, and I have no idea if this would change anything. Given that the caramelized honey has a different flavor profile, maybe it would be better to use less chocolate? Maybe more? I dunno.

 

[biochemedic]

For those thinking of doing a bochet for the first time, there's good info in this thread, and also this one (has some good pics). There's some other threads that deal with bochet too, but these are probably the best ones.

Also this thread from my 'other board' has some info on using the burnt honey in a beer, along with general bochet info.

EDIT: another good thread that has a link to a video of the process, and some more pics

 

[biochemedic]

What I plan on doing is blending my previous bochet recipe and my cocoa mead recipe.

The bochet used 18 lbs honey, and the cocoa, 15 lbs. I think I'll stick with the 18 lbs; the amount of residual sweeteness seemed just right to me, and I think will complement the cocoa well, and I hopefully won't even have to backsweeten (although I'll do so if necessary...)

The cocoa mead recipe was this one, and I scaled it up to 6 gal, so I used 20 oz of regular Hershey's unsweetened cocoa powder. This was added right at the start...I heated up some of the water needed, and dissolved the powder, which was *much* easier with hot water as compared to cold. I then added the honey, and cooled to pitching temps, and brought water up to the full 6 gal batch size.

I think in this case I will boil the honey first as I did with my prior bochet, then once I have it partially cooled down and have added some of the water, I will add the cocoa, then continue to cool/bring up to volume.

Yeast: I am a big fan of the Wyeast 4632 Dry Mead strain...I used it for both of these meads, and will use it for the Cocobochet. I'll make a 1/2 gal starter and get my pitch rate up a bit first...

With the cocoa in primary like this, it is a bit messy, so if you try this, use a blow off tube. Also be prepared for a fair bit of lees after the primary ferment...a mix of yeast and cocoa solids. One of the reasons for my using 6 gal batches is so I can rack from 6 gal down to 5, and have a bottle or two extra for topping off later if I rack again.

When I did the cocoa before, I had to rack a couple times before it was clear, and actually ended up using finings *twice* to get it to clear...ultimately it is crystal clear, and a nice deep golden color (of course the bochet version will be much darker...)

I'll be curious to hear from others that do the cocoa nibs in secondary as to whether or not they get an adequate cocoa presence...I know there's *plenty* there using this technique!

 

[Insomniac]

I recon i will put some of the nibs in primary, maybe a third of the total and crushed slightly, then when the yeast has dropped out go to secondary on the remaining amount. May have to book some of the day off work for this one...

 

[vincanis]

So the Chocolate Bochet is the mead of choice for the leap year mead?

My first meads are just fermenting (well..at least one of them is, I have another thread about that though).

The thought of a leap year mead is interesting. I suppose I'm in if I can get the materials. Is there any movement towards a specific recipe? I only skimmed over the five pages and didn't see a recipe posted. I'd be doing a 1 gallon batch as that's the only size of carboy I have open. (4 1-gal glass amber carboys and 1 5-gal clear glass carboy...considering getting myself a 5-g better bottle already...)

Just throwing it out there, what about adding a unique paring to the chocolate flavor to give the mead a little more character to stand out (although I suppose scorched honey itself is unique in the mead realm).

I'm not sure how it fares in a mead recipe, but perhaps maybe a mint flavor added? Not a typical York candy mint, but a more natural wild mint? Boil a few leaves in a small amount of water to extract flavor/kill germs and then pitch it in?

EDIT:

Maybe a foot in for a recipe for a gallon:
Primary - 4lbs of honey, boiled down, add water, throw maybe 1/3 of a pound of cocoa nibs into the carboy then siphon the must on top.
Secondery - add about 1/4 cup of cocoa, 3-5 mint leaves, boil the leaves for about 5 minutes, let cool a while, dissolve cocoa powder into the boiled mint, throw in secondary, rack primary on top

Just suggesting an extra amount of honey because the cocoa nibs would add some bitterness to the mead.

 

[turtlescales]

I'm going to make a gallon batch of this at least, and I like the mint idea. My friend grows a weird chocolate mint variety that tastes well, like chocolate mint. I will see if I can get my hands on some and add it to secondary with some cocoa nibs.


I'm also planning a second batch, undecided if I will do 3 or 5 gallons. This will be one I know my other half will appreciate, hence the larger quanitity.

for 3 gallons-
6 pounds fireweed honey
6 pounds orange blossom honey
5oz hibiscus
an as of yet undertermined amount of hops, probably Fugle and Goldings
Uvaferm 43 yeast

Trying for something similar to Dansk Mjod's Vikings Blod, I have a basic recipe put together so far and some questions regarding it, particularly with the hops, but perhaps I should start another thread for this recipe?

 

[vincanis]

By the way, Sams Club has 5 lbs of Sue Bee Clover Honey for about $12.

 

[lawpaw]

You guys are much more thorough with your cocoa then I was when I made my chocolate cherry wine. I just dumped some cocoa in the secondary and mixed it a little bit. It never really dissolved, it was just clumps of cocoa that I shook up into the wine with the lees every week or so.

I thought it turned out fine, but I was just looking to add a hint of chocolatey flavor. I'll be more precise this time.

 

[biochemedic]

By the way, Sams Club has 5 lbs of Sue Bee Clover Honey for about $12.

This is exactly what I used for my first bochet...I figured since I'm boiling the $h!t out of it and most of the flavor comes from the carmelization and maillard reactions, why use an expensive honey?

 

[vincanis]

-gets a defib unit out-

Is the group leap year batch a go? It'd be an awesome experiment to see the different takes on a single batch and a fun experience for people to collaborate.

I threw this together as a suggestion/help for collaboration.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Leap_Year_Mead

 

[Insomniac]

I'm not personally sold on the mint idea, when ever I have a drink containing mint I always end up wondering why I ordered it. To me it just doesn't work as a drink indredient, much like trying to eat something after brushing your teeth, it just does weird things to your taste buds.
I would be more tempted with the vanilla addition someone mentioned, though am happy with a "standard" chocco-bochet.

 

[biochemedic]

I would be more tempted with the vanilla addition someone mentioned, though am happy with a "standard" chocco-bochet.

I think vanilla would make a very nice addition to any bochet, or cocoa mead, or a combined. I think cinnamon would also be a very complementary flavor to a cocoa mead, and I've also thought of doing a cocoa mead with chipotles too...I've made a chocholate cinnamon chipotle stout that I really like, and I think it would work in a mead too...

Overall, though, I think for now I'm just going to do the Cocobochet...

 

[vincanis]

Hrm. I wonder if anyone out there has actually tried mint in a mead before. I'd be interested in knowing if they liked it. It was just a crazy suggestion.

Cinnamon might be a good addition. I don't really see the point of vanilla and chocolate in a drink though.

 

[Hazroth]

My raspberry mint mead turned out fantastic....granted it needed about 8 months to come to flavor.

 

[vincanis]

I might do one straight chocolate and one with mint just to see. These are going to be aging quite a while so I don't think that will matter too much. What did you do with your mint and what mint did you use?

 

[Hazroth]

Well I used 1oz. of McCormick mint leaves in a tie bag and steeped them in for about 28 hours at 65 degrees. I removed them after I had a distinct flavor of mint but not overpowering. Then I just it mellow with age and its been one of my best brews.

Think ill try some mint in the primary next time and then add some lavender. Lavender mint.....mmmmmm *mug*

 

[Penguinetti]

Not crucial for a bochet at all. I only chose meadowfoam because it is very marshmallowy when heated, so I thought it would go well with some chocolate.

Considering throwing in some buckwheat instead of steeped grains for a "malty" flavor. My buckwheat isn't very grainy tasting, but it is rich like molasses and that could be as good.

Meadowfoam is one of my favorite honeys. I've used it with cocoa nibs and really liked the combination, but I'm not sure about using it in a Bochet. I haven't made one yet, but I wonder if you'd lose those wonderfully unique flavors after a couple hours of boiling.



BTW - I like the idea of a leap year bochet.

Wow, I was just reading on GotMead about someone who did this meadowfoam chocolate nibs mead. Wierd.

I'm going to make a gallon batch of this at least, and I like the mint idea. My friend grows a weird chocolate mint variety that tastes well, like chocolate mint. I will see if I can get my hands on some and add it to secondary with some cocoa nibs.


I'm also planning a second batch, undecided if I will do 3 or 5 gallons. This will be one I know my other half will appreciate, hence the larger quanitity.

for 3 gallons-
6 pounds fireweed honey
6 pounds orange blossom honey
5oz hibiscus
an as of yet undertermined amount of hops, probably Fugle and Goldings
Uvaferm 43 yeast

Trying for something similar to Dansk Mjod's Vikings Blod, I have a basic recipe put together so far and some questions regarding it, particularly with the hops, but perhaps I should start another thread for this recipe?

I don't know if you have made a thread for this or not, but I'd definitely be interested in reading it. Also, how is the Dansk Mjood's Vikings Blod? I just saw that a craft beer shop near me is selling the stuff.






Also, I'm down for jumping on this leap year meadsperiment. Although, I've never made anything other than a JAOM as of now, so I would be fine just doing a well-aged show mead. But anything works for me.

 

[Bhunter87]

I'm starting my first mead on Monday (jaom) but I would love to be a part of this.

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