Law

[teddy_one]

Hi everyone,

Is selling brewing beer kit is considered as selling alcohol in USA ?

 

[MindenMan]

All the ingredients are "food grade", meaning the individual parts could be used to create things other than beer.

 

[Homercidal]

Hi everyone,

Is selling brewing beer kit is considered as selling alcohol in USA ?

Not at all. You can sell any part of a beer kit, even after mixing it up, right until you put the yeast in. As soon as you put the yeast in, even if the yeast hasn't had any time to make alcohol, it's considered beer and you can't sell it.

Before yeast it put in = Good
After yeast is put in = Bad

 

[roastquake]

I've heard of folks getting around it this way: at a renaissance fair these folks where selling "souvenir mugs"... filled with homemade mead

 

[BlackGoat]

I've heard of folks getting around it this way: at a renaissance fair these folks where selling "souvenir mugs"... filled with homemade mead

They aren't getting around anything, they are just selling booze without a permit and nobody is paying attention.

 

[roastquake]

Haha, good point

 

[ImNoExpert]

How do they (the feds) know if there is yeast in it? I always thought that once the wort fermented to .5% APV or more, then it's beer.

Edit: from he TTB's Glossary

 

[Beergazzi]

Could I open a store front selling prepared wort and packets of yeast near a large college campus?

 

[fuzzy2133]

Welcome to the realm of things that are OK to buy/make/own and illegal when you are caught in the act of violating a law.

You can buy/make/own a distillation still however when you start it up and make whiskey you are now performing a illegal act.

Could I open a store front selling prepared wort and packets of yeast near a large college campus?

You would probably get shut down for doing something wrong under some law made back in the 1800's...

 

[ImNoExpert]

Could I open a store front selling prepared wort and packets of yeast near a large college campus?

Sure, why not? Although I think the college kids want there beer a little faster.

Malt extract is basically dehydrated wort. My LHBS is a couple blocks from UW Madison and a private high school.

 

[teddy_one]

then selling a starter kit isnt same as selling alcohol.

Thanks everyone

 

[duboman]

Could I open a store front selling prepared wort and packets of yeast near a large college campus?

Sure you could but the first place to look would be your local laws as federally there should be no issue because you are not selling an alcoholic beverage

 

[Hello]

Not trying to sound overly harsh but I really think you need to consult the actual law. I bet there is a lawyer or three here but I doubt any of them will do much more than cite the law for you. Giving you counsel, seeking counsel online when you're unsure who you're speaking to, and trying to skirt the system usually ends badly.

Selling a starter wort, if that is what you mean, seems like you are also risking infection. It will only take one ahole college kid to fail at making actual beer before you start to see issues.

OTOH, I am constantly considering outcomes and they're rarely the good ones so maybe you see brighter rainbows than me.

 

[BlackGoat]

I don't understand what the issue is here. Are we debating whether its illegal to sell homebrewing equipment? The answer is no.

 

[ImNoExpert]

I don't understand what the issue is here. Are we debating whether its illegal to sell homebrewing equipment? The answer is no.

Correct.

 

[rsyb]

Or was the question really, "Do you have to be of legal age (drinking age in your state) to sell homebrewing kits?"

Just like 20 year old grocery store clerks in my state can't ring up alcohol sales, but the 15 year old bagger can put it in a bag. What sense does that make?

Do you have to be of legal age to sell the components of beer? As earlier posts pointed out, I think not. Of course I am not a lawyer.

 

[BlackGoat]

I am. You guys are confusing the normal ingredients of beer, which are relatively ordinary food items (well maybe not hops) with alcohol. You can make hard cider out of a bottle of apple juice and a pack of raisins. You can buy a bag of sugar and some bread yeast and make booze. Nobody requires people to be of a legal age to sell these products, same reason why nobody cares how old you are when buying malted barley, hops, and yeast.

 

[rklinck]

The homebrew shops in my area all say that you must be at least 21 to shop there. I'm guessing the only reason they would place this requirement on shoppers is that they are convinced that the state law required them to limit sales to people who are of age. I have no idea if they are right.

If you opened a store selling premade wort and yeast right next to a college campus and marketed to the students in a manner that made it clear you were a way for underage people to get alcohol, you definitely would need to worry about enterprising plaintiffs' lawyers. The second that someone underage buys from you, makes the beer, and then has an accident, you will be getting sued. I have no idea whether you would win, but you would spend a ton of money on lawyers along the way.

 

[rklinck]

I am. You guys are confusing the normal ingredients of beer, which are relatively ordinary food items (well maybe not hops) with alcohol. You can make hard cider out of a bottle of apple juice and a pack of raisins. You can buy a bag of sugar and some bread yeast and make booze. Nobody requires people to be of a legal age to sell these products, same reason why nobody cares how old you are when buying malted barley, hops, and yeast.

Around me they care. They at least say they won't sell the stuff to people who are under 21.

You can certainly claim that the ingredients are all just "ordinary food items," but the law enforcement folks will not care. This reminds me of head shops that sell "incense" that they make clear "is not for human consumption." The FDA, DEA, and nearly every state law enforcement agency considers these drugs. You will have about as much good trying to convince them that the products sold by a store that markets itself as a homebrew store are just "ordinary food items."

 

[BlackGoat]

you're confusing finished products with ingredients . Better to think of it like this: is it illegal to buy potting soil? No. It can be used to grow pot (or "incense"). Is it illegal to sell pot? Yes (well in most places anyway).

Homebrew shops probably don't want to sell to people under 21 just because they don't want to bother with any hassles or hire an attorney to figure out whether its legal or not. If I were a shop owner, I probably wouldn't want some 15 year old kids in there buying stuff, just because it has a bad appearance.

 

[TheSmithsEra]

LOL the OP is going to sell this starter kit of his to some 16 year old punks. 2 Months later the police are going to roll him because one of the punks went home drunk, his parents busted him and he ratted his friend out and the cops go to his house and find the homebrew set up leading them back to him

The guys defense is going to be that HBT said it was ok lol

 

[ImNoExpert]

If OP sells his motorcycle to a 16 year old and the 16 yo wrecks it and dies, is OP liable? I'm no lawyer, but I'd say no.

 

[TheSmithsEra]

If OP sells his motorcycle to a 16 year old and the 16 yo wrecks it and dies, is OP liable? I'm no lawyer, but I'd say no.

without a license, yes. i'm no lawyer, oh wait...no i'm not

 

[mattd2]

If OP sells his blown motorcycle to a 16 year old for scrap and the 16 yo fixes it and then wrecks it and dies, is OP liable? I'm no lawyer, but I'd say no.

without a license, yes. i'm no lawyer, oh wait...no i'm not

OK how about this slight change? were getting

 

[mattd2]

How do they (the feds) know if there is yeast in it? I always thought that once the wort fermented to .5% APV or more, then it's beer.

Edit: from he TTB's Glossary

Beer
Beer, ale, porter, stout, and other similar fermented beverages (including saké and similar products) of any name or description containing one-half of one percent (0.5%) or more of alcohol by volume, brewed or produced from malt, wholly or in part, or from any substitute for malt.

Thank you for taking the time to actually find the federal definition of beer. I hate it when people say that wort is instantly turned into beer as soon as the yeast hit it... come on we're not Jesus

 

[hunter_le five]

Or was the question really, "Do you have to be of legal age (drinking age in your state) to sell homebrewing kits?"

....

Do you have to be of legal age to sell the components of beer? As earlier posts pointed out, I think not. Of course I am not a lawyer.

Of course laws vary from state to state, but generally speaking, absolutely not. There is no age restrictions on buying grain, malt extract, yeast, etc. These all of have perfectly legitimate, non-alcohol-related uses. Hell, I bought my first beer kit when I was 19. It only becomes illegal once you start fermenting it.

 

[Homercidal]

Thank you for taking the time to actually find the federal definition of beer. I hate it when people say that wort is instantly turned into beer as soon as the yeast hit it... come on we're not Jesus

No, but who is going to continually monitor their inoculated wort to check for legality. By the time the wort is confiscated and analyzed by a licensed laboratory, the ABV will be into beer territory.

It's easier and still practical to consider anything inoculated with yeast as being a fermented beverage for the sake of the law.

And for the purpose of this discussion I doubt you could sell a pitched wort to a minor, or to someone who lives where alcohol is not permitted, and claim innocence.

 

[thisisbeer]

We had a 19-20 year old kid that worked at the LHBS selling all the supplies there.

 

[NervousDad]

So what would happen if the wort spontaneously fermented from wild yeast.

 

[ImNoExpert]

That would depend on the strain of wild yeast. Either way, don't dump it. Let it ferment and see how it turns out. I might be good.