Lager in a Corny?

[sonvolt]

So, with the addition of a new (to me) fridge to my home brewery, I am working on getting some lagers started. Currently, I have two tapped kegs in the fridge - an IPA and an Oatmeal Stout. I have room for either two more kegs or one carboy. Obviously, if I put my carboy in the fridge to lager a beer, I won't be able to tap a third keg.

However, if I were able to lager in a corny keg, I would be able to get more beer into the fridge.

I realize that if I assembled the keg with an airlock, this would be fine. But what would happen if I didn't?

I assume that after the initial fermentation at warmer temperatures, the actual fermentation is complete and the lagering is simply cold conditioning. Is this true? If it is, then not much gas should be coming off of the beer. Would it be ok to seal the corny and vent it occasionally?

Or . . . am I getting the idea of lagering all wrong?

 

[rcd]

I'd like to know that too.

One thought though... I'm a noob but it does seem like you'd have trouble with temperatures... say you do the fermentation at 45F and then lager at 35F... your (drinking) kegs are gonna be pretty on the cold side for drinking.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I'd love to hear a more experienced answer on this, but I have a solution for your "periodic venting." Check this link at MoreBeer for some corny lids with fittings attached for blow-off tubes and such. Though you certainly wouldn't need a blow-off during lagering, you could use one as an airlock to prevent having to relieve pressure manually.

EDIT: Alternatively, just attach a spare ball lock fitting to the gas "in" port and put the end of the hose into a bucket of sanitizer. Same effect, saves you about $40.

 

[Kaiser]

I do all my lagering in cornies since this is actually much more convinient since you get to transfer the finished beer in a CO2 environment. And there is no need to vent either. If you racked pretty close to the terminal gravity of the beer, you won't overcarbonate in the corny keg.

I even go so far to carbonate my lagers during this secondary fermentation which includes the lagering at near freezing temps. For that I use a bleeder valve with a pressure gauge to make sure I get to the desired CO2 level in the beer.

Kai

 

[sonvolt]

Thanks, Kai.

Can you tell me more. I mean, I guess I don't understnad the need for a bleeder valve. Can't I just hook up the corny to my CO2 and set it to the desired pressure? What do you mean by bleeder valve.

Also, what is your usual regimine regarding fermentation temps for your lagers. Most of Papazian's recipes call for a near 50 degree primary and a 40-45 degree secondary (lagering) phase. Does this sound about right? I am sure that yeast type is an issue, but I am trying to get a sense of how I can use my kegerator to get this lagering phase done.

 

[Kaiser]

Can you tell me more. I mean, I guess I don't understnad the need for a bleeder valve. Can't I just hook up the corny to my CO2 and set it to the desired pressure? What do you mean by bleeder valve.

The bleeder valve allows for a controlled release of CO2 from the keg. I'm not sure if a regulator would allow CO2 to escape.

Also, what is your usual regimine regarding fermentation temps for your lagers. Most of Papazian's recipes call for a near 50 degree primary and a 40-45 degree secondary (lagering) phase. Does this sound about right? I am sure that yeast type is an issue, but I am trying to get a sense of how I can use my kegerator to get this lagering phase done.

These days I ferment my lagers at 50-52*F for about 7-10 days. Then I rack to a corny (with or without Kraeusen) and keep them at this temp for another week before I check gravity and try to get them slowly (about 1-2F/day) down to lagering temp once the gravity has come close enough to the FG target. The lagering happens at about 30-36*F.

You can also lager them at 40-45*F. At this temp lagering will actually go faster since the yeast is more active, but the literature says that the beers may not get as smooth and the head retention will not be as good. But I doubt that the difference is big. When bringing them down to lagering temp, make sure you don't shock the yeast. Yeast activity is necessary during this time.

Kai

 

[david_42]

Lagering involves very little CO2 production, so blow-off tubes and airlocks aren't needed. If you look closely at the relief valve on your cornie, you should be able to pull the ring up, rotate it 90 degrees and force it to stay open. What little CO2 that is produced should prevent any backflow into the keg.

I'm only talking about the lagering stage, not the initial fermentation. I wouldn't try that in a cornie. Attaching a blowoff tube to the gas outlet is probably workable, but I'd be really concerned about clogging the poppet. I guess you could have a dedicated keg and just take the gas side poppet out of the plug. Or even drill it out a bit.

 

[Desert_Sky]

I went over to a friends over the weekend. He has two lagers in cornies right now.

He took the poppits out and put a piece of rubber tubing over the posts. Then attached a s-type airlock into the tubing.

 

[sonvolt]

No need to drill the poppet - mine pop right out of the post.

Thanks, Kai, for the information on bleeder valves.

Also, I had not considered the need to move slowly to lagering temperatures. I was simply going to ferment at about 50-55 for a week, rack the beer into a corny, and toss it into my fridge (which I suspect is about 40 degrees). Perhaps it will be best to rack to my corny and then try to get it cooler over the course of two days with ice chunks, etc. before popping that bad boy into the fridge.

One more question - will the lagering phase throw a bunch of sediment? In other words, once I have the beer lagering in my corny keg, will it be necessary to rack it to another corny keg for carbonation and serving after it is conditioned? Or . . . can I simply let it lager for a month or so and then throw some carbonation into the solution and start drinking from the same vessel I used for lagering?

 

[Glibbidy]

I am new to lagering, and have found lagering in cornies to work relatively well, the only down side I have seen so far, is losing a couple pints to hops clogging up the line when the keg is nearly empty.

 

[sonvolt]

I am new to lagering, and have found lagering in cornies to work relatively well, the only down side I have seen so far, is losing a couple pints to hops clogging up the line when the keg is nearly empty.

So, you serve from the same vessel as you lager? You don't transfer to another corny after the lagering phase? :rockin: Saving a step there. I will assume that the hop problem only occurs if you are dry hopping, right? Also, I wonder if it would help to dry hop with a hop (tea) ball?

 

[Kaiser]

Also, I had not considered the need to move slowly to lagering temperatures. I was simply going to ferment at about 50-55 for a week, rack the beer into a corny, and toss it into my fridge (which I suspect is about 40 degrees). Perhaps it will be best to rack to my corny and then try to get it cooler over the course of two days with ice chunks, etc. before popping that bad boy into the fridge.

You can ferment the beer at 50-55F until it is completely done and then crash it to about 40F. Many homebrewers do lager their beers that way and seem to like it. Give it a try. I used to to that for my early lagers. After some reading I found that the idea behind true lagering is keeping the yeast active at a very low temperature.

One more question - will the lagering phase throw a bunch of sediment? In other words, once I have the beer lagering in my corny keg, will it be necessary to rack it to another corny keg for carbonation and serving after it is conditioned? Or . . . can I simply let it lager for a month or so and then throw some carbonation into the solution and start drinking from the same vessel I used for lagering?

Yes, lagering will produce sediment. Once the lagering is done, I like to take the beer of this sediment for two reasons: autolysis and being able to move the keg w/o kicking up the sediment. The latter is important if you take the kegs to parties.

Kai

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

I went over to a friends over the weekend. He has two lagers in cornies right now.

He took the poppits out and put a piece of rubber tubing over the posts. Then attached a s-type airlock into the tubing.

You can also just remove the Co2 Post and place your blowoff tubing or a very small bung in that hole, Then you can just put your air "dip" tube and post back on when you are ready to transfer.

 

[Glibbidy]

So, you serve from the same vessel as you lager? You don't transfer to another corny after the lagering phase? :rockin: Saving a step there. I will assume that the hop problem only occurs if you are dry hopping, right? Also, I wonder if it would help to dry hop with a hop (tea) ball?

I have used the corny's for lagering after they have been racked from the secondary fermenter. Some of the dry hops somehow managed to get into the keg anyway.

Recently on a side note, I did rack a stout directly to a corny for Cold Storage. This was after something like 10-12 days in the primary fermenter. Seems to be working fine, since I put it on tap

 

[todd_k]

I have used the corny's for lagering after they have been racked from the secondary fermenter. Some of the dry hops somehow managed to get into the keg anyway.

Recently on a side note, I did rack a stout directly to a corny for Cold Storage. This was after something like 10-12 days in the primary fermenter. Seems to be working fine, since I put it on tap

Did you end up having any problems with the stout? I wanted to go directly from the primary after 14 days to the corny for cold storage too. I didn't want to have to siphon it twice to avoid oxidizing the beer so I'm curious to find out if you ended up with any off flavors.

 

[HenryHill]

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[HenryHill]

Wrong Place To Post

 

[FlyingHorse]

Did you end up having any problems with the stout? I wanted to go directly from the primary after 14 days to the corny for cold storage too. I didn't want to have to siphon it twice to avoid oxidizing the beer so I'm curious to find out if you ended up with any off flavors.

I've started doing these with almost all of my beers (all ales so far, no lagering yet). 2 weeks in primary, 2 days crash cooled at 40 to help the clearing (still in primary) then directly to keg. I put a nylon dry hop bag over the "out" end of my siphon tube to catch any floateis or stray dry hops. Seems to work pretty well.