Lack of Crispness in Kolsch

[arattray]

Hey Guys,

Been reading on this site a lot but this is my first post. So I recently brewed an AG Kolsch. I used the White Labs Kolsch strain. I fermented at 59-61 for one week, then transferred to secondary and lagered in my chest freezer for 4 and 1/2 weeks at about 38 degrees.

I just kegged it a few days ago and tasted it and it doesn't taste very goodt. I think I'm getting buttery flavors and there is no crispness at all. I can't remember my recipe off hand but it was mostly pilsner malt with a little wheat.

I'm really disappointed as Kolsch is one of my favorite styles and I was really expecting this to be somewhat crisp. Does anyone have any suggestions? Does it just need some more time? I didn't raise my ferm temps so is that maybe the problem.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Crispness is not really coming from the yeast itself, but really from the grain bill and especially the mash pH.

I have a friend at a brewpub that I go to, he recently made a Kolsch using Wyeast 1007 (German Ale). He completely fooled me on that one, I was darn certain he used W2565!

Turns on that his grain bill include acidulated malt, which brings the pH down. It's a very impressive beer. So well received that in fact, he has put it on the rotation for "lighter beers" at the brewpub.

M_C

 

[JonK331]

Yeah sounds like diacetyl. I've heard of people repitching a small amount of yeast and bringing up the temp to get rid of it. Never tried it myself though.

 

[AnonyBrew]

Yeah sounds like diacetyl. I've heard of people repitching a small amount of yeast and bringing up the temp to get rid of it. Never tried it myself though.

That's what I'm thinking too. 1 week isn't very long in primary for this beer. Did you measure gravity? The yeast weren't done yet and in some styles like this you should do a diacetyl rest.

 

[DustBow]

Yeah, I still do a 3 week primary (with the last week at room temp) before lagering. I would let your primary go longer next time and see what happens. Fermenting low is good for Kolsch but it does slow the process down a bit, gotta give those guys time to finish their job before we drop them out during the lager period

 

[Bensiff]

You could also be dealing with under attenuation along with the diacetyl. Carbonation will help some with making it crisp, but ultimately grain bill, low mash temp for fermentability, and water chemistry (both for salt profiles and pH control) are going to be your major factors in making a good crisp beer.

 

[LKABrewer]

Yeah, I still do a 3 week primary (with the last week at room temp) before lagering. I would let your primary go longer next time and see what happens. Fermenting low is good for Kolsch but it does slow the process down a bit, gotta give those guys time to finish their job before we drop them out during the lager period

+1 yeast wasn't done yet.

 

[badhabit]

I love Kolsch but have a ton of problems getting it right. Most of the problems have to do with trying to get the beer to ferment at as low a temprature as possible to bring out that crisp lager like quality. It sounds like you may well be having the same problems. First I am assuming that you are using WLP029 although given the time of year it may be 036 (available May and June only) Both of these yeasts ferment between 65 and 69 F. 029 specificly does not ferment well below 62 at the tempratures that you are talking about it sounds like you did not let the yeast ferment well and as a result ended up with the flavor, diacetyl, that you are talking about, butter or butterscotch and kind of slippery on the tongue. I have had this problem once, in fact I killed the yeasty once because I had the wort in fermentation too cold too long and didn't have enough yeast to carb up well in the bottle. Here is what I have ended up doing to produce a very nice Kolsch, crisp with a faint floral finish. I only can brew this style in the winter because I don't have a temp controaled fermentation box. I start the first 24 hrs upstairs at temps about 68-70F then move for the rest of primary downstairs, one week about, to a temp of about 65 F them back upstairs for 48 hours and then move to secondary and into an outside wall closet that will run between 60 and 65 F for two weeks. Then to bottles and condition first 48 hours upstairs and then back to the closet for three weeks. Like I say great flavor, good carb not crystal clear but I am unwilling to add any finnings. All in all I am kind of doing a diacetyl rest between primary and secondary and again to carb the bottles. If you keg I think you could skip the second rest, crash to about 35ish and see what happens. If you come up with something better I would love to hear about it. Unfortunatly I just like the Kolsch and Roggen too much to give up on either but sure have ended up goofing around a lot to make things work

 

[paraordnance]

1 week at 60F is way to fast for Kolsch yeast. I kept mine at 61-62F and it finished after 2 weeks, then I leave it alone for another week at least. You moved your beer too soon. My Kolsch is always crisp if you leave it alone for 3-4 weeks than lager it till it drops clear (usually another month)

 

[mabrungard]

Crispness and brightness of flavor can degraded if the brewer's water has excessive alkalinity that prevents the mash pH and resulting wort pH from dropping into a desirable range. If the OP has brewing water with high alkalinity, that would be an easy thing to fix with an appropriate dosing of acid.

The fermentation temp sounds like it was conservatively low, so excessive ester formation is probably not an issue. The OP did not mention if the FG was checked and if the attenuation was proper. The cooler ferment may have also prevented adequate attenuation and excessive unfermented sugar in the wort could be providing the perception of lacking crispness.

 

[DustBow]

When I first started homebrewing I was really excited about Kolsch - I figured a lager-like beer but with the ease & speed of an ale. Then you start to read about how to do it properly, try it a couple times for yourself, and realize it's really not much easier and definitely not faster than a true lager. It's not that bad or anything but definitely more involved than your typical pale ales and such.

 

[arattray]

Thanks for all the info guys. I guess I just got use to brewing ales and thought doing a Kolsch would be basically the same. This was my recipe from Midwest:

7lbs 2 row
2lbs wheat malt
12 oz of munich
4 oz of caramel 10
1oz Perle 60 minutes
1 oz spalt 2 Minutes

mashed at 152 for 60 minutes

WL029 fermented at 58-61 for 1 week

I also have extremely hard water down here in San Antonio. Sounds like it was a combination of not giving the yeast enough time at a higher temp and maybe not having a low PH in the mash. Well I'll be trying it again soon and will hopefully have better results. I've started buying RO water for my brews lately and mixing it with a gallon or two of my hard tap water. Since this brew I've also been using a PH stablizer, would I not want to use that if I'm trying to purposefully get a lower PH?

 

[mabrungard]

I also have extremely hard water down here in San Antonio. Sounds like it was a combination of not giving the yeast enough time at a higher temp and maybe not having a low PH in the mash. Well I'll be trying it again soon and will hopefully have better results. I've started buying RO water for my brews lately and mixing it with a gallon or two of my hard tap water. Since this brew I've also been using a PH stablizer, would I not want to use that if I'm trying to purposefully get a lower PH?

Whoa! Are you using 5.2 Stabilizer? That is definitely a detriment to crisp flavors in beers. I've tasted far too many lighter colored beers that have a dull flavor when brewed with that stuff. Learn how to properly acidify your brewing water and toss that stuff in the garbage.

 

[arattray]

Yeah I just started using the 5.2 stabilizer. I haven't tried any of my beers that I've mashed using it though.

Ok so I want to make another attempt at a kolsch. This receipe is from Jamil Zainasheff.

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

08-A Koelsch & Altbier, Koelsch-Style Ale

Min OG: 1.040 Max OG: 1.048
Min IBU: 16 Max IBU: 30
Min Clr: 4 Max Clr: 5 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 6.00 Wort Size (Gal): 6.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 10.50
Anticipated OG: 1.046 Plato: 11.55
Anticipated SRM: 3.8
Anticipated IBU: 22.2
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 7.74 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.036 SG

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
85.7 9.00 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
9.5 1.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 1.037 8
4.8 0.50 lbs. Wheat Malt Germany 1.039 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.90 oz. Tettnanger Pellet 5.60 20.7 60 min.
0.40 oz. Tettnanger Pellet 5.60 1.5 5 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Unit(s)Whirlfloc Fining 20 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

BrewTek CL-450 Kolsch


Water Profile
-------------

Profile:
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca): 0.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 0.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 0.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 0.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 0.0 ppm

pH: 7.00


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs: 10.50
Water Qts: 15.60 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 3.90 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.49 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 150 Time: 70
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 60

Total Mash Volume Gal: 4.74 - Dough-In Infusion Only

SO being that I can either use all hard water or all RO water, I assume I need to use RO and then add some salts to the water. What would give the beer the best crispness? Also the mash calls for a temp rise for 10 minutes to 168. Would you reach this by just adding boiling water to the mash? Is there anything inparticular i can do to reach a desired PH level in the mash? Or is this where the minerals and salts come in?

 

[blkandrust]

I'm thinking that you racked to soon,before primary was done.I primary my beers for a month.