American Pale Ale Kona, Fire Rock Pale Ale (AG Clone)

[BierMuncher]

This turned out really great.

Thanks BM

Glad you liked it.

 

[Mojzis]

Figured I post the pint!

I didn't use Maris otter btw, that's why it's lighter.

 

[Gixxer]

I just drank my last bottle a few days ago. Next time I will make a bigger batch. I really like this recipe.

 

[thadius856]

Going to brew this next weekend. Sending the wife to the LHBS tomorrow to get the yeast, Munich, Honey and Cara-Pils.

I don't have access to MO, but I do have a full sack of Great Western Pale Malt I can sub in. It's 2.0, instead of the MO's 3.0.

How can I change the recipe to compensate?

 

[NewBrewB]

I have now brewed this twice, following the orig recipe but the second time I skipped the dry hop on purpose.

I dont have a hop spider so all hops additions were just tossed in--even the dry hop addition after 1 week. I just pulled the orange cap and tossed them in the carboy.

My beer friends agree that they like the dryhopped one better--but by skipping the dry hop, the beer is nearly identical to KFR.

Just my 2 cents. I guess what I am saying is the recipe probably works as long as you use a hop spider or use a musin "sock" to limit the hop impact on the flavor profile...or just do what i do and skip the dryhop.

I also think the Maris Otter is crucial for this clone.

 

[Chris7687]

Hey guys,
This is the 5th or 6th time I've brewed this beer. It is one of my house beer's and a crowd favorite. I have had some trouble on the last few batches though. I can never get the beer to come out as crystal clear as everyone has pictured. It always ends up very cloudy, mainly after dry hopping. I have even left it cold crashing for a month after dry hopping and there still is haze to it. Do you all just throw the pellets directly in or do you keep them in a bag?

 

[Mojzis]

Hey guys,
This is the 5th or 6th time I've brewed this beer. It is one of my house beer's and a crowd favorite. I have had some trouble on the last few batches though. I can never get the beer to come out as crystal clear as everyone has pictured. It always ends up very cloudy, mainly after dry hopping. I have even left it cold crashing for a month after dry hopping and there still is haze to it. Do you all just throw the pellets directly in or do you keep them in a bag?

Directly in for such a small amount. To get a clear beer I do the following. Cool the beer to 29, let it cool for one day. Add gelatin the next and keep it cool for 5 more days. Getting almost no haze or sediment in my bottles.

 

[Chris7687]

Mojzis - per some of my research just now had three questions for you. 1) How much gelatin do you use? 2) How long does it take for your bottles to carbonate? I read that the gelatin strips most of the viable yeasties out, which causes it to be so clear but in turn takes away the yeast that would carbonate your beer via the priming sugar. I have also read that these yeast being stripped out also changes the flavor profile, 3) Do you notice a difference in taste of gelatinized vs non-gelatinized beers?

Edit - Per a post I just read from BierMucher. He states to add it at room temp. Anyone have any experiences to support one way or another?

"Adding gelatin to a beer that is significantly colder than room temperature will cause the gelatin to immediately coagulate and fall to the bottom. Gelatin should be added to beer before it is chilled, and allowed to mix thoroughly. Then it can rest at that temp, or be chilled. I prefer to let the beer rest at fermentation temps to allow the protein to bind with the gelatin before the gelatin wants to "gel" and drop to the bottom."

 

[Mojzis]

I use about 1-2 tablespoon or half a packet (eye ball it). I stick a mason jar in the micro for a few minutes then let it cool slightly for 5 minutes. Add the gelatin, mix and let sit another 15. Then add to the already cooled beer.

Your second question is a good one though. When I add the gelatin in primary I get a decently clear beer (as above) and carbonation in 2 weeks and a perfect beer in 3. I think its because I rack some yeast/trub when I rack from primary. I tried gelatin in secondary for my last batch and I've got the clearest beer yet. Looks like its filtered. However its taking forever to carb. I popped one at 2 weeks and didn't get much at all, just a little hiss. So I'll check again in another week or two.

I don't think I mind though. IME my beers peak at around a month to month and a half. So I'm hoping to get a crystal clear beer and have to wait for it to peak anyway to get good carbonation.

I can't comment on the temperature to add because I have only done it two ways. Chilling and adding gelatin at same time (not as clear) and chilling then adding gelatin 24 hours later (much more clear).


I went from very hazy beers to good clarity with gelatin. I have only done 5 batches with it so far so i'm no expert and have a lot more experimenting to do with it. But so far i'm very impressed.

 

[Chris7687]

Thanks for a great response Mojzis.

I have a few IPA's and this Pale Ale (with a few changes) that I want to put in a competition , will waiting a month affect the IPAs and Pale Ale's hop aroma and flavor drastically?

Also, not sure if you have done this but with adding to a keg all of the gelatin should come out in the first pint or so, correct?

Sorry all on the thread hijack. Just trouble shootin my cloudy Fire Rock clone here!

 

[Mojzis]

A month shouldn't do anything but help flavor. In my experience I find that the bitterness becomes much more smooth and less....raspy then when consumed earlier. However I also have highly carbonated water which contributes to the bitterness. After a month I find it tastes the best for my hoppy beers. Once again YMMV.

I don't keg but have read a bunch of times that the first pour or two will be sludgy from the gelatin. I believe some people shorten the dip tube? I might have the wrong term since I don't even know what one is!

 

[BierMuncher]

...Sorry all on the thread hijack. Just trouble shootin my cloudy Fire Rock clone here!

Forgiven.

Gelatin should be added to the beer while it is still at room temperature. Adding dissovled gelatin to a chilled beer will instantly turn the mixture into jello and it will sink to the bottom. True, it will eventually attract and bind with the protiens that are causing your beer to cloud, but it will be much more effective if the gelatin is allowed to fully blend with unchilled beer...and then chilled.

 

[Mojzis]

I'm going to give that a shot next. How long does it usually take to clear?

 

[BierMuncher]

I'm going to give that a shot next. How long does it usually take to clear?

My last batch was two weeks in the primary. Straight to the keg with gelatin. Into the chiller at 30PSI for 36 hours. Drop the gas to 12PSI. Taste for carbonation levels. Kegged it on Sunday, by Friday, my third pint was rolling very clear. After an additional week, it was crystal clear and effervescing.

 

[thadius856]

Posted a page back, and got lost.

Have a whole sack of 2.0L Pale Ale Malt to burn through.

Is there a simple conversion I can add to the recipe to use the Pale Ale Malt instead of the Marris Otter and still get approximately the same beer? Perhaps add 1/2 lb of Biscuit or something?

 

[BierMuncher]

Posted a page back, and got lost.

Have a whole sack of 2.0L Pale Ale Malt to burn through.

Is there a simple conversion I can add to the recipe to use the Pale Ale Malt instead of the Marris Otter and still get approximately the same beer? Perhaps add 1/2 lb of Biscuit or something?

The difference would be negligeable if used as is...but two things you may do:

1) Toast 2 pounds of the base malt at 350 for 30 minutes.
2) Raise your mash temp by 3-4 degrees.

 

[thadius856]

The difference would be negligeable if used as is...but two things you may do:

1) Toast 2 pounds of the base malt at 350 for 30 minutes.
2) Raise your mash temp by 3-4 degrees.

Thanks! I'll try the toasting this time to see what I get.

Would you recommend toasting milled or unmilled?

 

[Mojzis]

Thanks! I'll try the toasting this time to see what I get.

Would you recommend toasting milled or unmilled?

You toast unmilled. (specifically cited from radical brewing by Randy Mosher)

Here's a good link that shows the process:
http://barleypopmaker.info/2009/12/08/home-roasting-your-malts/

 

[thadius856]

Brewed this one up yesterday. Ended up neither toasting nor upping my mash temperature. It was already my first 10+ gallon batch, first AG and first time using my mill, so I left well enough alone.

I think I did alright. Used BeerSmith. Scaled down the grain bill for 10.5 gallons into the fermenters, but left the hop additions alone.

Didn't calculated my thermal mass of the tun right (forgot the copper manifold), and forgot to account for cooling of the grain below room temperature due to milling outside. Came in with 25 qt of strike water and all the grain, ended up at 149.8F. Quickly dumped in my emergency strike water at 190F, and it only got me a 1F rise. Quickly got more 190F water ready using two pots on full blast and a bowl in the microwave. Hit 154.5F, then sealed it up and let it ride. Topped up, then the manifold clogged. Went to vorlouf and got only a trickle. Gave it a Fonzi smack and it knocked fee.

Did 1 sparge of 6.5 gallons. Forgot to compensate for the extra liquid I added to get the temp up at mash in.

Came up with est pre-boil 12.6 gal of 1.045. Actual 13.1 gal of 1.042, 3 pts low. Figured I'd boil 10-15 minutes before first hop addition to get the gravity back up. Didn't work out; forgot to adjust boiloff rate for the new springlike weather. Came out with 11.5 gal of 1.049, again 3 pts low. Called it good enough, pitched the starter, and they're already going to town less than 20 hours later.

Was a fun recipe. Color looks very close to what I see on my monitor. Smells great. The additions every 10 minutes were a bit of a pain without a hop spider, but I guess that's next on the list.

 

[thadius856]

Transferred to secondary yesterday, only because all 6 kegs were still in use and I needed the buckets back for another batch. Already within the range of expected FG. Started the Centennial dry hopping.

Picked up two more kegs today, but one needs poppits and both need o-rings. Half is getting kegged, half bottled for aging and gifts. Initial tasting seems promising, even this early.

 

[Chris7687]

Hey guys, just tasted a batch of Pale Ale I made. It is going to a beer club pouring at a local brewery tomorrow, so to make sure it was crystal clear I put a a small amount of gelatin in the keg to clear it. Poured it last night and it was crystal clear, but I believe the gelatin had stripped all the hop flavor and aroma away!! It taste just like a very bitter, watered down bud light! I made 11 gallons, so I cooled down the second keg of it (which didn't have gelatin added to it) to try as well to see how it turned out. I am hoping it was just the gelatin one and not the whole batch. I threw an ounce of Citra and an ounce of Cascade in the keg to dry hop with, but it's sitting at 40* in the kegerator and is supposed to be poured tomorrow at 7pm so don't think that is enough time for anything to happen with the dry hopping.

So on the trouble shooting end, if it wasn't the gelatin what could have caused this? I am having trouble remembering what yeast I used, it was either US-05 or WLP051, which the WLP051 I haven't been impressed with at all. Claimed to be "slightly more fruity", but I haven't picked up any fruity esters at all. My house has been sitting around mid to upper 60's, which is about right for both styles of yeast. Other than the yeast, I am stumped! It seems everytime I brew beer to give out at events something always goes wrong! This beer was brewed the end of Jan, so just over a month now. Wouldn't think the hop flavor and aroma would escape that fast.

 

[Mojzis]

I've used gelatin many times and never noticed lacking flavor or aroma. Watered down taste likely means its not the yeast or the hops. Do you do all grain or extract? How did your volumes and gravity match up? Did you follow the recipe?

 

[Chris7687]

Mojzis - I do BIAB All-Grain. My volumes and gravity both came in a little lower than expected, but still had a 68% efficiency. Mashed 154. It may have been my palate a little off, due to the fact I came from a buddy's house drinking some IPA's and just had some spicy gumbo for dinner, but it didn't have the hoppiness flavor and aroma it usually has. It was all bitterness.

 

[thadius856]

Kegged and have been drinking mine for about a week. I didn't do any clarifying other than a cold crash before transferring off secondary.

Mine's cloudy, but slowly gets clearer with every pour. Tastes delicious - a satisfying typical pale ale bitter note with a nice floral aftertaste and smell from the Centennial. I used leaf because that's what I had; next time will certainly be with pellets and I'll try the gelatin. I don't mind the cloudiness, but it seems to freak others out.

 

[Mojzis]

Mojzis - I do BIAB All-Grain. My volumes and gravity both came in a little lower than expected, but still had a 68% efficiency. Mashed 154. It may have been my palate a little off, due to the fact I came from a buddy's house drinking some IPA's and just had some spicy gumbo for dinner, but it didn't have the hoppiness flavor and aroma it usually has. It was all bitterness.

Give it another try before you have spicy food or an ipa. I know everytime I switch from ipa to pale ale I think the aroma and flavor is low.

What were your gravities?

 

[Chris7687]

O.G. 1.054. F.G. 1.01. ABV - 5.9%. I used a little more MO (why I have a higher O.G. and still a 68% effic), as I was expecting a lower effic. as it was my first 11 gallon batch.

 

[dhoyt714]

I brewed this beer 2 weeks ago and instead of boiling for 90 minutes, I boiled for 60 minutes. The beer is drastically lighter in color, but still tastes pretty good. It was my first all grain, so I was wondering if it was lighter in color because of the of the shorter boil? The O.G was 1.047 and according to the recipe it was supposed to be 1.054.

Any ideas?

 

[BierMuncher]

I brewed this beer 2 weeks ago and instead of boiling for 90 minutes, I boiled for 60 minutes. The beer is drastically lighter in color, but still tastes pretty good. It was my first all grain, so I was wondering if it was lighter in color because of the of the shorter boil? The O.G was 1.047 and according to the recipe it was supposed to be 1.054.

Any ideas?

There should not be a "drastic" difference between a 60 and 90 boil in terms of the color.

 

[brewingdan]

I tasted my first Kona Pale ale last weekend and really liked it. The thing that jumped out at me most was the hop aroma and water minerality.

Does anyone have any recommendation about how much ppm of SO4 to look for?

At first taste, I'm thinking between 150-225ppm.

Looks like a pretty solid recipe.

 

[Avocet]

Brewed this Saturday-used the Wyeth smack-pack German Ale (a good date--late Feb) but in 3-4 hours it barely puffed up at all. Sunday morning the carboy was dead. Luckily I managed to find a supplier open Easter Sunday. Keeping my fingers crossed.....