Kitchen stovetop induction BIAB

[Brewer dad]

Happy new year all

Another extract brewer looking to go all grain. I'd love to be able to use my fancy schmancy induction cooktop we just got a couple of months ago, and I would further love to do BIAB.

I'm looking at a 10 gal kettle which is induction compatible for 5 gallon batches. My questions are as follows:

-The largest burner is 8", the kettle's footprint is 13". Because of stove layout/kettle dimensions I won't be able to have the burner centered on kettle. Would this lead to significant temperature issues during mash? I know people have done the kettle on two burners thing, and suspect induction may not be as prone to hotspots as gas/conventional electric.

-In researching stovetop brewing I see a lot of people mention checking weight tolerances. I've been unable to find ours, but is there a general rule of thumb? I found a blurb from another company saying theirs tops out at 50lbs, hoping that's just a low-ball number. Obviously if this would create an issue I wouldn't do it. However I feel like with this tove it shouldn't be an issue.

If either or both this things become an issue, I plan on picking up a smaller kettle in the 5-8 gal range and mashing in a converted cooler tun. However I'd prefer biab if I can swing it.

 

[Stormcrow]

I bet mash temperature wouldn't be an issue with that setup, especially if you stir a few times. Not sure about weight tolerance. I do five gallon batches BIAB with a ten gallon kettle on our glass stove top all the time. Haven't broke it yet.

 

[RM-MN]

-The largest burner is 8", the kettle's footprint is 13". Because of stove layout/kettle dimensions I won't be able to have the burner centered on kettle. Would this lead to significant temperature issues during mash? I know people have done the kettle on two burners thing, and suspect induction may not be as prone to hotspots as gas/conventional electric.

Most brewers don't know how long it takes to get full conversion of starches into sugars so they try to keep the mash temperature steady during a full hour. That leads them to try adding heat as the mash cools and since the mash is somewhat thick, that leads to hot and cold spots unless steady vigorous stirring is done. In most cases the hot and cold spots don't matter as the conversion was over before heat was applied if the grain was milled finely for BIAB.

A bigger concern is whether your induction cooktop is capable of bringing the entire amount of wort to a boil in a reasonable amount of time.

 

[Brewer dad]

Most brewers don't know how long it takes to get full conversion of starches into sugars so they try to keep the mash temperature steady during a full hour. That leads them to try adding heat as the mash cools and since the mash is somewhat thick, that leads to hot and cold spots unless steady vigorous stirring is done. In most cases the hot and cold spots don't matter as the conversion was over before heat was applied if the grain was milled finely for BIAB.

A bigger concern is whether your induction cooktop is capable of bringing the entire amount of wort to a boil in a reasonable amount of time.

Good points. I plan on picking up a Corona mill to start and upgrading later to keep costs down a little.

The burner in question is 3600 Watts. Google tells me thats around 12,200 BTU. I'm not sure if those BTU's are apples to apples on the BTU's for propane burners. I see some induction burners being recommended for brewing in the 3500 watt range so maybe this will work?

Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[RM-MN]

Good points. I plan on picking up a Corona mill to start and upgrading later to keep costs down a little.

If you haven't seen this thread there are some ideas on adapting a Corona mill.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/my-ugly-junk-corona-mill-station.90849/

 

[Brewer dad]

Thank you!

 

[madscientist451]

I plan on picking up a smaller kettle in the 5-8 gal range and mashing in a converted cooler tun. However I'd prefer biab if I can swing it.

I use an 8 gallon pot on my electric stove and can brew 5 gallon batches without any issues. You can also BIAB in a cheap round cooler, just change the spigot. I also put a cheap SS vegetable steamer in the cooler to create a "false bottom". These days I've downsized to 2.5 to 3 gallon BIAB batches (using a smaller pot) and am happy with that, I can get a brew done pretty fast and the cleanup is pretty easy. Sometimes I use 2 pots to get the boil going faster and then combine everything.

 

[JJinMD]

I started brewing with 5 gallon batches on my glass top stove. Later, I moved to the garage with a 3500w induction burner. It was probably a good move for my marriage. I am kind of messy sometimes. Anyway, my input for you is two things, have a good plan for draining the bag and for steam management during the boil. Those were the two messy issues that I never really resolved well inside and easily solved in the garage.

 

[IslandLizard]

The burner in question is 3600 Watts. Google tells me thats around 12,200 BTU. I'm not sure if those BTU's are apples to apples on the BTU's for propane burners. I see some induction burners being recommended for brewing in the 3500 watt range so maybe this will work?

You don't need to convert to BTUs when dealing with electric unless you want to compare to gas burners. But you can't really rely on the listed BTU output from gas burners anyway, as transfer of the generated heat to the kettle is very inefficient. Even more so when used outdoors due to wind, temp, convections, inefficient burning, transfer of heat to kettle, etc. Chances are half of the BTUs generated by typical gas burners used in brewing are lost to the environment.

Induction is close to perfect heat transfer as the heat is generated in the bottom of the kettle itself. A heat stick, bucket heater, immersion heaters in general, are 100% efficient in that; all heat generated is transferred to the water (or wort).

The weight of the full kettle on your glass/ceramic cooktop is a concern, absolutely! The 50 pound listed weight limit has some (safety) margins built in, but who wants to test the real limit?

When we moved and bought our new glass-top range (embedded radiant coils, not induction) I thought the large triple element burner would be wonderful for doing full volume boils of 5-5.5 gallon batches in my 8 gallon triple ply bottomed kettle...

The 15" diameter kettle overhangs that large triple coil burner by several inches all the way around. Not sure if the overhang caused the issue, but the element would not remain on at full power, it cycled on and off perpetually, taking almost forever to bring the kettle to a boil. Even to keep the boil/simmer I had to keep the lid on part ways. The hood was a bit in the way too, but it all worked. Barely.

The real concern was the sheer weight of that nearly full 8 gallon kettle on that glass top! 60-some pounds plus the weight of the kettle itself.
I always made sure there was no grit, dirt, or grains of sand in between; point pressure can do some serious damage!

After doing a few brews like that, I bought a 3500W (Avantco IC3500) induction plate and never looked back. Overhang is not an issue while the stainless frame is plenty sturdy for all the weight. Heck, I even run a 15 gallon kettle on it, with no issues.

 

[Brewer dad]

I use an 8 gallon pot on my electric stove and can brew 5 gallon batches without any issues. You can also BIAB in a cheap round cooler, just change the spigot. I also put a cheap SS vegetable steamer in the cooler to create a "false bottom". These days I've downsized to 2.5 to 3 gallon BIAB batches (using a smaller pot) and am happy with that, I can get a brew done pretty fast and the cleanup is pretty easy. Sometimes I use 2 pots to get the boil going faster and then combine everything.

I've looked at the cooler pretty hard it definitely has appeal. My inclination towards using the 10gal kettle is to be able to do everything in one pot and not having to pour or transfer. Yes I have to deal with bag/removal but I think that's easier than moving whole containers. Unless I get a pump involved.

Depending on how things work I may use a couple of smaller stock pots just to heat up RO water some before going into kettle to save time like you suggest.

 

[Brewer dad]

@IslandLizard

Im hoping to find an actual published limit for my stove just to know for sure, but you definitely have a point. There are plenty of people saying it works for them, but I can't brew if I'm dead. And my wife would kill me if I broke the brand new stove.

I'd like to use the equipment I have on hand as much as possible, so for heat that means either my kitchen stove or my propane burner. I was hoping to get back to indoor brewing, and maybe I need to re evaluate my goals and what I'm willing to do to get there.

 

[RM-MN]

What's keeping you from putting two pots on the cooktop and doing 2 BIAB mashes at the same time, then combining the wort into a fermenter? Half the weight on each burner. Maybe even consider doing 2 separate mashes and combining the wort even though you only use one kettle?

 

[IslandLizard]

I've looked at the cooler pretty hard it definitely has appeal. My inclination towards using the 10gal kettle is to be able to do everything in one pot and not having to pour or transfer.

I've been using a "converted" 54 qt (13-1/2 gallon) rectangular Coleman Extreme cooler as a mash tun. I prefer that shape over round ones as they're much easier to stir, especially when nearly full. Then 2 batch sparges.
It's on a low bench on the floor, so I drain 2-3 gallons at a time into a 3.5 gallon "short" bucket, and empty that out into the kettle sitting on the IC3500 on the countertop.

Yes I have to deal with bag/removal but I think that's easier than moving whole containers.

Yeah, bag hoisting is a real issue you need to solve.
One BIAB homebrewing couple in our club pulls the stove forward when they're brewing, to get it away from the hood.

 

[JJinMD]

If I went back to brewing in the kitchen, I think I would use a pot on the stove as an HLT, put my igloo cooler (round) on the floor, mash in that, then move the cooler up to the counter, empty the HLT, and use the HLT pot as the boil pot. Lifting the bag to drain with the cooler on the floor is much easier than lifting the bag at counter height. I might even put a false bottom in the pot and finish draining the bag pretty easily right there or maybe not empty the HLT, but do a "dunk sparge." This would mean the stove top would never have the weight of the grains plus full volume mash water.

For me, lifting 5 gallons from floor to counter height and vice-versa would probably be a lot safer to do indoors than trying to fool with a pump. I am kind of messy and often spill a little when connecting and disconnecting pump fittings... (I have to account for that in my efficiency calcs).

 

[Brewer dad]

What's keeping you from putting two pots on the cooktop and doing 2 BIAB mashes at the same time, then combining the wort into a fermenter? Half the weight on each burner. Maybe even consider doing 2 separate mashes and combining the wort even though you only use one kettle?

Equipment I guess. Biggest induction pots I have on hand are 1.5 gal, though I guess I could turn out some three gallon batches huh

 

[Stormcrow]

I've been using a "converted" 54 qt (13-1/2 gallon) rectangular Coleman Extreme cooler as a mash tun. I prefer that shape over round ones as they're much easier to stir, especially when nearly full. Then 2 batch sparges.
It's on a low bench on the floor, so I drain 2-3 gallons at a time into a 3.5 gallon "short" bucket, and empty that out into the kettle sitting on the IC3500 on the countertop.


Yeah, bag hoisting is a real issue you need to solve.
One BIAB homebrewing couple in our club pulls the stove forward when they're brewing, to get it away from the hood.

Yep. My wife and I also pull the stove forward. Easy to do and really helps. We also have rigged different methods of using an old oven rack and colander or perforated baking sheet to set the bag on over the kettle after we lift it. We've never hung the bang from anything.

 

[wepeeler]

Get a bottle of fermcap! You don't want a boilover on that nice stove top!

 

[beerisyummy]

I have a 10 gallon Megapot I bought from Northern Brewer which is induction compatible, and a 3500W induction cooker I think I found somewhere on Amazon. System works well even though the "footprint" of the pot doesn't exactly match the shape of the cooker. If you add heat during the mash though, 2 things. (1) Get a false bottom for BIAB from www.brewhardware.com - otherwise you'll burn a hole in the bottom of your bag. Guess how I know that, heh. (2) I find that I gotta stir a LOT or I will get crazy hot spots.

Brew on...

 

[Brewer dad]

I've been using a "converted" 54 qt (13-1/2 gallon) rectangular Coleman Extreme cooler as a mash tun. I prefer that shape over round ones as they're much easier to stir, especially when nearly full. Then 2 batch sparges.
It's on a low bench on the floor, so I drain 2-3 gallons at a time into a 3.5 gallon "short" bucket, and empty that out into the kettle sitting on the IC3500 on the countertop.


Yeah, bag hoisting is a real issue you need to solve.
One BIAB homebrewing couple in our club pulls the stove forward when they're brewing, to get it away from the hood.

Hm, you definitely present some interesting ideas. Can you still replace the spout like they do on the igloos with a ball valve? Or is that where you’re using the bag and just run it through? Both?

I have some ideas for hoisting the bag. Either hide a cleat somewhere, or just move kettle to the floor and hang it from a ladder.

 

[jtgoral]

I do only BIABs using Avantco 3.5kW induction heater. My batches to start fermentation are 5.5-5.75 gallon of wort. To get it I start BIAB with 8.25 gallon of water and 8-12 pounds of milled grains. The size of my pot is 64 qt. It is stainless steel but the magnet sticks to it so the pot is good for induction heating. It takes me ~15 minutes to heat the wort from 150F to boiling.

 

[Brewer dad]

If I went back to brewing in the kitchen, I think I would use a pot on the stove as an HLT, put my igloo cooler (round) on the floor, mash in that, then move the cooler up to the counter, empty the HLT, and use the HLT pot as the boil pot. Lifting the bag to drain with the cooler on the floor is much easier than lifting the bag at counter height. I might even put a false bottom in the pot and finish draining the bag pretty easily right there or maybe not empty the HLT, but do a "dunk sparge." This would mean the stove top would never have the weight of the grains plus full volume mash water.

For me, lifting 5 gallons from floor to counter height and vice-versa would probably be a lot safer to do indoors than trying to fool with a pump. I am kind of messy and often spill a little when connecting and disconnecting pump fittings... (I have to account for that in my efficiency calcs).

This was pretty much exactly what I was considering for the second option.The back door is right by the kitchen, which goes down some stairs. Could make use of that elevation change to help with transfers. And if I put the cooler on Dooley could just wheel it right over. This may well be what I end up doing.

 

[Brewer dad]

I have a 10 gallon Megapot I bought from Northern Brewer which is induction compatible, and a 3500W induction cooker I think I found somewhere on Amazon. System works well even though the "footprint" of the pot doesn't exactly match the shape of the cooker. If you add heat during the mash though, 2 things. (1) Get a false bottom for BIAB from www.brewhardware.com - otherwise you'll burn a hole in the bottom of your bag. Guess how I know that, heh. (2) I find that I gotta stir a LOT or I will get crazy hot spots.

Brew on...

That is the exact pot I’m looking at, trying to figure out the weight difference between it and the 8 gal version don’t think bird be that much

 

[JJinMD]

That is the exact pot I’m looking at, trying to figure out the weight difference between it and the 8 gal version don’t think bird be that much

Spike has a few 10g options in their bargain cave right now, not too far different in $$$.

So long as you get a pot with drain, you can ameliorate the temp stratification issues in the bag by draining a half gallon or so a few times during the mash and pouring it back in the top. Reduces need to stir so much.

 

[IslandLizard]

Can you still replace the spout like they do on the igloos with a ball valve?

Yup!
I removed the spigot and put a 1/2" bulkhead through the cooler wall with a SS washer, flat silicone o-ring and a nut. I did end up using some (food grade) silicone to get a better seal, and to prevent the bulkhead threads from siphoning.
The cooler holds mash temps quite well due to the foam insulated walls and lid, similar to the round coolers.

Or is that where you’re using the bag and just run it through? Both?

No bag, I put a slotted 1/2" cpvc manifold on the bottom, but could have used a bazooka screen or a SS hose braid instead.

The 1/2" cpvc manifold is shown "upside down" for the picture.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have a 10 gallon Megapot I bought from Northern Brewer

That is the exact pot I’m looking at

For 5 gallon BIAB batches doing full volume mashes you'd need a bigger kettle, 15 gallon being a good average size. Reason is, since BIAB brews are not typically sparged, the kettle needs to hold the entire volume of all your brewing water plus the volume of the grain (in the bag). Then also leave a little headspace so you can easily stir the mash without spilling.

Mind, the higher the gravity you brew, the larger the grain bill, so the larger the kettle should be. That's why when brewing high gravity wort an (external) sparge is recommended to increase mash efficiency, which starts to plummet at higher gravities, say above 1.070-1.080.

You may get away with a 10 gallon kettle if you do dunk sparges in a large pail or tub on the side, after pulling the bag. Then add the sparge runnings to the kettle.

 

[Brewer dad]

Spike has a few 10g options in their bargain cave right now, not too far different in $$$.

So long as you get a pot with drain, you can ameliorate the temp stratification issues in the bag by draining a half gallon or so a few times during the mash and pouring it back in the top. Reduces need to stir so much.

I’ll take a look. Main reason I was looking at NB is they have a small sale going and I can get a wort chiller on sale too

 

[Brewer dad]

Yup!
I removed the spigot and put a 1/2" bulkhead through the cooler wall with a SS washer, flat silicone o-ring and a nut. I did end up using some (food grade) silicone to get a better seal, and to prevent the bulkhead threads from siphoning.
The cooler holds mash temps quite well due to the foam insulated walls and lid, similar to the round coolers.


No bag, I put a slotted 1/2" cpvc manifold on the bottom, but could have used a bazooka screen or a SS hose braid instead.

The 1/2" cpvc manifold is shown "upside down" for the picture.
View attachment 755058

that’s a cool setup!

 

[Brewer dad]

For 5 gallon BIAB batches doing full volume mashes you'd need a bigger kettle, 15 gallon being a good average size. Reason is, since BIAB brews are not typically sparged, the kettle needs to hold the entire volume of all your brewing water plus the volume of the grain (in the bag).

You may get away with a 10 gallon kettle if you do dunk sparges in a large pail or tub on the side, after pulling the bag. Then add the sparge runnings to the kettle.

I played around with the biab .com calculator and per that at least a 10gal kettle is good into the low 20lbs for grain bills, not sure if I’m doing something incorrectly though. Definitely a possibility since the only variable I’m changing is grains.

Honestly though after talking through it with y’all I’m starting to lean towards doing a two vessel system with a dual purpose kettle/hlt, and then a cooler as my mash tun. Doing so would allow me a smaller vessel on the stove, otherwise I think I’ll have to stick with the propane(for now) if I were to keep on with my original idea. Nice thing is both are decent options and realistically achievable, just have their own pros and cons. For me now biggest thing is going inside greatly flexibility of when I brew which is big for me with two young kids.

 

[JJinMD]

In my opinion/experience, a round 10g igloo makes sense for BIAB, particularly if you are using it as a mash tun, it will be so much easier to move around (less splashing and more stable lifting it up or down than a rectangular cooler), but you still need a false bottom or bazooka or else it won't drain. I put the bag in the igloo and mill right into the bag. Then I fill the igloo from the bottom up, using gravity (got that trick from the lodo people).

I have been able to fit a 5 gallon batch in my 10g with some room to spare, but if I do a higher gravity recipe, I just do a 4 gallon mash in the igloo and then dunk sparge in the kettle in the remaining water. That is pretty much how I do my 5g batches in the garage these days. I get better efficiency that way anyway.

 

[beerisyummy]

You may get away with a 10 gallon kettle if you do dunk sparges in a large pail or tub on the side, after pulling the bag. Then add the sparge runnings to the kettle.

That is exactly what I do