KISS-Lime for alkalinity and then follow the Primer?

[2trout]

Or do I need a ward labs report.

Trying to keep thing simple here...

Below are the relevant parts of a water report from my city. Some things they don't test for, so I have included what i have.

Barium .028mg/l
Sodium 1.5mg/l
Chloride 2.2mg/l
Fluoride 1.1mg/l
Sulfate 4.5mg/l
Calcium 43.4mg/l
Solids total dissolved 171mg/l
Alkalinity, Total as CaCO3 150mg/l
Hardness, Calcium 108mg/l (Calc as Ca x 2.479) to convert to calcium carbonate
Ph 7.74

Magnesium is not included

Having spent some time looking into water (and I struggle conceptually here) and also reading over the Primmer https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=198460 Ive come to the conclusion that my water is pretty good, save the alkalinity, and maybe the hardness.

Can I/Should I deal with the alkalinity using Pickling Lime and then simply follow the "Primmer"?

I prefer not to have to purchase lots of additional RO or Distilled water for most brews (with the exception of Pilsner.)

trout

 

[jmark]

Pickling lime is used to RAISE alkalinity, and with your water, I doubt you'd need to use that except maybe in the instance where you end up using substantial amounts of roasted grains. On the surface, your water looks pretty good, so following the primer is probably good to begin with, but learning how to adjust water for the type of brew you're doing isn't as difficult as it may first seem.

 

[2trout]

This from pjj2ba,

I'm one of the few that uses pickling lime to reduce the alkalinity. After adding the lime it turns cloudy with CaCaO3 precipitate. It takes at least 4 hrs to settle, or I typically set it up the night before. Then I transfer it off the sediment and then adjust the pH down to 5.4-5.5 with phosphoric acid. Of course you need a pH meter to do this well. Test strips can work in a pinch.

Is this possible?

 

[Yooper]

This from pjj2ba,



Is this possible?

Yes. You need to add some calcium and then the lime, and then rack off of the precipitate.

It works well, but I had issues with it because I ended up with tons of big vessels of water in my brewing area (I brew 10 gallon batches).

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Alkalinity_reduction_with_slaked_lime has a good write up of "how to" and @ajdelange is a great source of information!

 

[2trout]

Is there a better/easier way to reduce the alkalinity in my existing water with out having to run to the store?

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

I think you can boil your water. This will drive off CO2 and chalk will precipitate. At least I think that's what'll happen with your water. Then you just let the water cool and rack the water off of the chalk. I really have no idea how much alkalinity that'll get rid of though. I'm sure someone smarter than me (and there are a lot) can help out.

 

[2trout]

Yooper,

Thanks for the links! "Say ya to da UP eh?"

trout

 

[jmark]

I should definitely edit my response... Adding lime is typically used to raise pH not necessarily alkalinity. I did not realize that with sufficient calcium present, it can also reduce alkalinity via precipitation. I stand corrected - thanks Yooper.

 

[ajdelange]

Or do I need a ward labs report.

Trying to keep thing simple here...

Below are the relevant parts of a water report from my city. Some things they don't test for, so I have included what i have.

Barium .028mg/l
Sodium 1.5mg/l
Chloride 2.2mg/l
Fluoride 1.1mg/l
Sulfate 4.5mg/l
Calcium 43.4mg/l
Solids total dissolved 171mg/l
Alkalinity, Total as CaCO3 150mg/l
Hardness, Calcium 108mg/l (Calc as Ca x 2.479) to convert to calcium carbonate
Ph 7.74

Magnesium is not included

But easily calculated as 12.15*(150 - 50*43.4/20)/50 = 10.1 mg/L

Ive come to the conclusion that my water is pretty good, save the alkalinity, and maybe the hardness.

Rather like Munich water. Quite a bit of carbonate but otherwise pretty soft. The problem is the alkalinity.

Can I/Should I deal with the alkalinity using Pickling Lime and then simply follow the "Primmer"?

I prefer not to have to purchase lots of additional RO or Distilled water for most brews (with the exception of Pilsner.)

Then you have three ways to reduce the alkalinity.

1) Add acid until the water pH is equal to the desired mash pH. This reduces the alkalinity of the water to 0. You will need approximately 0.9*150/50 = 2.7 mEq of acid for each litre of water you treat. When you do this each mEq of alkalinity is replaced by a mEq of the acid you used so if, for example, you use phosphoric acid you will have 2.7 mEq/L biphosphate ions. This is probably the easiest because the 10% phosphoric acid sold by LHBSs is just about 1 N (1 mEq/mL) but you wind up with 262 mg phosphate in each litre of the treated water.

2)Increase the calcium level to at least equal and preferably exceed the alkalinity by a little and then boil the water. You have 3 mEq/L alkalinity and thus want say 3.5 mEq/L Ca. You have 108/50 = 2.16 and so would want to add 1.34 mEq/L as the chloride or sulfate. In boiling about 2 mEq of alkalinity, and perhaps a little more, will precipitate leaving alkalinity of about 1 (50 ppm). A like amount of calcium goes with it leaving 3.5 - 2 = 1.5 for a calcium content of 30 mg/L which is a pretty good level for most beers.

3) Increase the calcium as in 2. Make a slurry of lime and add it with stirring to about half the water to be treated until pH reaches 10 - 11. Now add tap water, with stirring to bring the pH back to 8.3 (make sure it is stable there). Let the precipitate settle and decant. This will give you about the same result as boiling.

 

[2trout]

Thank you for such a detailed response! Ill be reading it in detail after work!

Trout