Kegging - where to start?

[ILMSTMF]

Hello! Prepare for the TL;DR

* Adding this disclaimer - I've got muscle but am not handy. Plumbing (the parts and the process) is out of my wheelhouse. Hence, the threatening feeling of "what is all this s**t, how do I put it together?" *

Keezer project with four taps is the plan. Have chest freezer. Used this amazing thread to figure out that I can fit four ball locks and a 20# CO2 cylinder inside. With collar installed, that is.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=377518

So, that's the loose plan. Graduating from bottles to kegs seems to be a threatening project. Going from simply cleaning/sanitizing bottles, filling them then capping seems to be less involved than kegging. Particularly, small parts, connections, doodads, leak concerns, tubing, balancing... Head spinning.

So, the purpose of this post is to ask for insight on what I need and what to plan for. Please assume that budget is a consideration but also don't want to skimp on quality to save a few $. Ultimately, I would like something that won't cause headaches and I am willing to spend, within reason, to accomplish that.

1. Kegs
   
   I intend to use ball lock kegs. I will not consider pin lock. Unless there is an overwhelming response in favor of refurbished (and from where), I intend to purchase new units.
   
2. Taps
   
   I intend to use Perlick 650 SS forward sealing taps. SS 4" shanks.
   
3. Tubing
   
   Bev Seal tubing. John Guest 5/8" BSPP at shank -> tubing -> JG MFL 1/4" adapter -> 1/4" MFL keg coupler -> the keg.
   Please see Misc. section below for parts questions.
   
4. CO2 distribution/regulation
   
   Want the ability to provide different pressure to a keg (or kegs). Starting with this Taprite:
   
   http://www.kegconnection.com/taprite-dual-body-regulator/
   
   Now what? A manifold plus a T to distribute the different pressure to two kegs?
   
5. Doodads/misc./What the F did I miss?
   
   • Do I need swivel nuts for anything? What size?
   
   • For the QDs, I want to use CM Becker. Can I?
   
   This is what will work with tap configuration as listed:
   https://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/843386.htm
   
   Good enough or should I consider the CMB QD? What else do I need (clamps, swivel nuts)?
   
   • Here's the gas with check valve. I can't find where to buy it online.
   http://www.cmbecker.com/product/check-valved-gas-disconnect-ball-lock/
   
6. Cleaning/sanitizing/force carbonating
   
   I am going to save all this for a different post... or probably just search what's already out there.
   

Links to articles are welcome! Thanks very much!

 

[passedpawn]

4 port manifold w/check valves
spare orings and poppets
keg lube
keg wrench ( Craftsman 11/16 x 7/8 in. Wrench, Ratcheting Box-End )

Might reconsider the 20# tank. A 10 will last a long time, and when the inevitable leak happens, you lose less and it's easier to move around. I've got a 10 and a 20 and I'd gladly trade somebody the 20 for a 10.

 

[Thorsbrew]

I have to disagree with the 10lb of 20lb argument depending on what your co2 prices are. Where i live i have a few options. My LHBS will fill a 5lb tank for $13 and a 20lb for $30 (think the 10lb was $20) but the better deal here is i have a gas supplier that will exchange a 5lb tank for $13 or a 20lb for $17. If you have something like that it is SO much more cost effective to use a 20lb. (again didnt check 10lb prices there).

 

[audioa84]

Kegs
Ball locks work fine. I’ve purchased used and refurbished them myself (new o-rings and the like). Not sure I would do it that way again. If you are looking for the cheapest way into kegging, refurb or used is the way to go. However, with new kegs being under $90 (https://www.morebeer.com/products/torpedo-ball-lock-kegs.html?variant=KEG425) I can’t see why you wouldn’t go with new.

Taps
4” shanks should do nicely. I don’t have a tap yet (I’ve been using picnic faucets) so I can’t comment on the Perlicks.

Tubing
Your plan sounds good.

CO2 distribution/regulation
The regulator choice looks good. I’ve had several regulators and my Taprite is my favorite. If you want a shut-off and/or check valve for each hose, you may want a manifold. If all you want to do is distribute the gas, T fittings work fine. I’ve used T fittings in the past to feed 3 kegs off of one regulator.
As far as the 10lb vs 20lb, it would depend on space and how you plan to get the tank refilled. If all you have access to is a LHBS that swaps, go with what they offer. If you have a welding supply or a gas distributor, refilling may be more economical for a 20 lb. I personally have a very small kegerator at the moment so I use a 20oz paintball tank and will be refilling it from a 20lb tank (I can give more details on this if asked). I pay $15 for a refill of the 20lb tank from a gas supply shop.

Doodads/misc./What the F did I miss?
Swivel nuts are easy and keep things neat. You will need clamps of some type. You can go Oetiker if you want a semi-permanent type or simple hose clamp works too. You can get a check-valve on either your regulator or on a manifold so no need for a special QD.

Cleaning/sanitizing/force carbonating
If you are going to force carb, having at least a dual-body regulator is handy. I personally have a primary and 3 secondary regulators, that way I can set 2 regulators at a dispensing level and keep one for force-carbing.

Please keep in mind that what I state above are my opinions and others will have their own.

 

[thunderwagn]

I still don't get the dislike for pin locks...oh well. I've been buying them up from keg connection for under $35 apiece. Oring kits and disconnects included. With $7.99 shipped, I haven't found a better deal.

 

[bfish]

I still don't get the dislike for pin locks...oh well. I've been …...

Yup same here. Living in the land of Coke, pinlocks are around $15 per keg cheaper than similar condition ball lock. With the savings, buy a 4th to have ready on deck.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I'll add to the CO2 conversation. My place exchanges tanks for $12/5#, $16/10#, and $20/20#. That means a 20# tank is $0.60 less per pound than a 10#er. When the leak happens (and it will happen) even at an absurd rate of one in four tanks, you're still saving money going with the 20's.

 

[daveMN]

Don't forget tap handles, a temperature controller and a recirculation fan. Keep us posted on the build!

 

[IslandLizard]

I still don't get the dislike for pin locks...oh well. I've been buying them up from keg connection for under $35 apiece. Oring kits and disconnects included. With $7.99 shipped, I haven't found a better deal.

Yup same here. Living in the land of Coke, pinlocks are around $15 per keg cheaper than similar condition ball lock. With the savings, buy a 4th to have ready on deck.

I don't think there's a dislike for pin locks per se, but they are wider, and chances are fewer will fit the keezer space. I can cram 5 ball locks in my upright freezer (inside door panel removed), but only 4 pin locks if I had those instead. My chest freezer ditto, 2 fewer kegs if choosing pin lock.

 

[Thorsbrew]

I don't think there's a dislike for pin locks per se, but they are wider, and chances are fewer will fit the keezer space. I can cram 5 ball locks in my upright freezer (inside door panel removed), but only 4 pin locks if I had those instead. My chest freezer ditto, 2 fewer kegs if choosing pin lock.

That's the main commonly talked about reason. The other is the lack of a pressure relief valve. You can get the lids with PRVs for pin locks but then you might as well just have gotten a ball lock.

 

[IslandLizard]

That's the main commonly talked about reason. The other is the lack of a pressure relief valve. You can get the lids with PRVs for pin locks but then you might as well just have gotten a ball lock.

I have a few ball locks that don't have a manual PRV in the lid, just the dome. Although a bit of a PITA, using a spare gas QD gets you there too. Unless you fill them up all the way without shortening the gas dip tube...

Replacement lids are relatively expensive, perhaps overpriced on purpose?
There must be tons of ball lock lids out there.

 

[Thorsbrew]

Indeed. Makes no sense to replace much parts on a keg. My LHBS is having a sale on used ball and pin lock kegs. I just picked up 2 more ball locks for $38 each plus tax. They have lids there for $25 lol. Perhaps $20 online.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Intertap faucets are getting a lot of play around here and people really seem to like them. Cheaper than Perlick and have that cool interchangeable spout. As daveMN said you'll need a temp controller. I've got a Johnson controller that works fine but you can buy an Inkbird pre-wired much cheaper and it'll handle heating and cooling. Extra o-ring kits. You can use silicone plumber's lube and it's pretty cheap. Oh, and RDWHAHB!!! Kegging is simple and waaaay easier than bottling. Check with local brew pubs for used kegs. They use sanke style for their day to day but I bought 3 old ball locks they used for root beer and just swapped all the o-rings. Had to replace a leaky relief valve on one but I only paid $25 each

 

[IslandLizard]

Intertap faucets are getting a lot of play around here and people really seem to like them. Cheaper than Perlick and have that cool interchangeable spout. As daveMN said you'll need a temp controller. I've got a Johnson controller that works fine but you can buy an Inkbird pre-wired much cheaper and it'll handle heating and cooling. Extra o-ring kits. You can use silicone plumber's lube and it's pretty cheap. Oh, and RDWHAHB!!! Kegging is simple and waaaay easier than bottling. Check with local brew pubs for used kegs. They use sanke style for their day to day but I bought 3 old ball locks they used for root beer and just swapped all the o-rings. Had to replace a leaky relief valve on one but I only paid $25 each

Is that the silicone lube they sell at HD to lubricate faucet cartridges?

I picked up 5 corny kegs from a local brewery they had used for their pilot brews in the past. Over the years they had switched to using Sanke kegs for those too, so the cornies became obsolete. They were advertised on CraigsList.

 

[TANSTAAFB]

Yep, that's the stuff! Doesn't take much so that little flip top pot will last a while. Nice score in the kegs🍻

 

[ILMSTMF]

4 port manifold w/check valves
spare orings and poppets
keg lube
keg wrench ( Craftsman 11/16 x 7/8 in. Wrench, Ratcheting Box-End )

Might reconsider the 20# tank.

Many thanks for the part suggestions. Your point re: 20# vs 10# CO2 tank is absolutely valid. In my case, as others have pointed out and enjoy the luxury of, I get to enjoy cheap supply cost so 20# it is!

Kegs
However, with new kegs being under $90 (https://www.morebeer.com/products/torpedo-ball-lock-kegs.html?variant=KEG425) I can’t see why you wouldn’t go with new.

Yup. Hard to resist the new one. I see these $35/$40 used kegs and it is tempting AF but I would like peace of mind. For example, I can get four of these for $319 shipped:

http://www.homebrewing.org/AIH-New-5-Gallon-Corny-Keg-Ball-Lock_p_5100.html?AffId=160

PS - this is the model I am planning to get. Reviews are positive.

CO2 distribution/regulation
The regulator choice looks good. I’ve had several regulators and my Taprite is my favorite. If you want a shut-off and/or check valve for each hose, you may want a manifold. If all you want to do is distribute the gas, T fittings work fine.

Probably will get manifold. I won't have four kegs on all the time, after all. Wouldn't make sense to keep an empty keg in there with CO2 going into it, right?

Doodads/misc./What the F did I miss?
Swivel nuts are easy and keep things neat. You will need clamps of some type. You can go Oetiker if you want a semi-permanent type or simple hose clamp works too. You can get a check-valve on either your regulator or on a manifold so no need for a special QD.

That's just it. Far as I understood, the Bev Seal tubing connects directly into those John Guest adapters without the need for clamps. So, swivel nuts... Do I need them for somewhere else?

Cleaning/sanitizing/force carbonating
If you are going to force carb, having at least a dual-body regulator is handy. I personally have a primary and 3 secondary regulators, that way I can set 2 regulators at a dispensing level and keep one for force-carbing.

Please keep in mind that what I state above are my opinions and others will have their own.

Exactly why I'm here, for perspective.

About the force carbing. I'm avoiding asking here about the specifics of that. With that, let's paint a scenario:

• Have three kegs on.
• Dual body regulator giving one pressure out to two of those kegs and different pressure to third keg.
• Brew and rack into the fourth, empty keg. Now what?
• Force carb possible? What about the other active kegs? Manifold necessary? Could probably add 12 other questions but I'll leave it open ended.

Don't forget tap handles, a temperature controller and a recirculation fan. Keep us posted on the build!

Recirculation fan, brilliant!
In my FC, I've got heating wires installed. I don't expect I will be doing that in the keezer as the temp will be hovering in the lower/colder range (figure low/mid 50s). That said, will prob get some kind of single stage Inkbird.

That's the main commonly talked about reason. The other is the lack of a pressure relief valve. You can get the lids with PRVs for pin locks but then you might as well just have gotten a ball lock.

Takes up more space than ball lock, sums it up. All due respect to our friends here using pin locks without any offense intended.

Intertap faucets are getting a lot of play around here and people really seem to like them. Cheaper than Perlick and have that cool interchangeable spout.
Oh, and RDWHAHB!!! Kegging is simple and waaaay easier than bottling. Check with local brew pubs for used kegs. They use sanke style for their day to day but I bought 3 old ball locks they used for root beer and just swapped all the o-rings. Had to replace a leaky relief valve on one but I only paid $25 each

Intertaps are on my radar but I'm digging this SS with flow control from Perlick. Unless there's some overwhelming evidence that the Intertaps are "better"...

About kegging being easier. I suppose because I haven't actually DONE it is why I really can't comprehend HOW. Yes, annoying AF to clean/sanitize/SLOWLY fill/and cap bottles but... There's only a bit of necessary gear in order to make that process happen. It's the sheer amount of parts associated with the keg system that has me concerned. And how they all work with each other. (this 1/4" MFL connects to that QD and you need Oetiker clamps for that hose and use a 5/16" swivel nut on that thing then push the poppet down...WTF is a poppet anyway?) And what to watch for (CO2 leaks, beer backing up into gas line, what happens if a keg leaks gas? what happens if a keg leaks liquid? I could go on) And I haven't even addressed the whole collar building component of this process. See what I mean? I am the embodiment of "Somebody's gotta tell that dude to RDWHAHB" :cross: :cross: :cross:

Nobody has any comments about those CM Becker parts?

THANKS EVERYONE!! :rockin:

 

[Thorsbrew]

Many thanks for the part suggestions. Your point re: 20# vs 10# CO2 tank is absolutely valid. In my case, as others have pointed out and enjoy the luxury of, I get to enjoy cheap supply cost so 20# it is!





Yup. Hard to resist the new one. I see these $35/$40 used kegs and it is tempting AF but I would like peace of mind. For example, I can get four of these for $319 shipped:

http://www.homebrewing.org/AIH-New-5-Gallon-Corny-Keg-Ball-Lock_p_5100.html?AffId=160

PS - this is the model I am planning to get. Reviews are positive.



Probably will get manifold. I won't have four kegs on all the time, after all. Wouldn't make sense to keep an empty keg in there with CO2 going into it, right?



That's just it. Far as I understood, the Bev Seal tubing connects directly into those John Guest adapters without the need for clamps. So, swivel nuts... Do I need them for somewhere else?



Exactly why I'm here, for perspective.

About the force carbing. I'm avoiding asking here about the specifics of that. With that, let's paint a scenario:

• Have three kegs on.
• Dual body regulator giving one pressure out to two of those kegs and different pressure to third keg.
• Brew and rack into the fourth, empty keg. Now what?
• Force carb possible? What about the other active kegs? Manifold necessary? Could probably add 12 other questions but I'll leave it open ended.



Recirculation fan, brilliant!
In my FC, I've got heating wires installed. I don't expect I will be doing that in the keezer as the temp will be hovering in the lower/colder range (figure low/mid 50s). That said, will prob get some kind of single stage Inkbird.



Takes up more space than ball lock, sums it up. All due respect to our friends here using pin locks without any offense intended.




Intertaps are on my radar but I'm digging this SS with flow control from Perlick. Unless there's some overwhelming evidence that the Intertaps are "better"...

About kegging being easier. I suppose because I haven't actually DONE it is why I really can't comprehend HOW. Yes, annoying AF to clean/sanitize/SLOWLY fill/and cap bottles but... There's only a bit of necessary gear in order to make that process happen. It's the sheer amount of parts associated with the keg system that has me concerned. And how they all work with each other. (this 1/4" MFL connects to that QD and you need Oetiker clamps for that hose and use a 5/16" swivel nut on that thing then push the poppet down...WTF is a poppet anyway?) And what to watch for (CO2 leaks, beer backing up into gas line, what happens if a keg leaks gas? what happens if a keg leaks liquid? I could go on) And I haven't even addressed the whole collar building component of this process. See what I mean? I am the embodiment of "Somebody's gotta tell that dude to RDWHAHB" :cross: :cross: :cross:

Nobody has any comments about those CM Becker parts?

THANKS EVERYONE!! :rockin:

I'd reconsider the used kegs. As long as you can check the kegs out prior to purchase and make sure they hold pressure/take the posts off and make sure theyre good etc there's nothing wrong with a used keg. It holds liquid under pressure, new or old. Long as there's no meaningful damage (minor dents are fine) then new doesnt do anything for you aside from visually, and if its in your keezer or cares? You can pay $40 each or $90 each and end up with it serving the same purpose. But even the ones you buy used online they test to make sure they hold pressure.

As for the difficulties you were listing off with kegging...well everything you get into has its issues to deal with (you should see the list of things i had to learn about for computer water cooling) but those minor things i personally wouldnt consider real issues. Just little tidbits to learn. But to each their own.

 

[bfish]

I don't think there's a dislike for pin locks per se, but they are wider, and chances are fewer will fit the keezer space……. My chest freezer ditto, 2 fewer kegs if choosing pin lock.

I can fit two of either in mine. However, since I went with pinlocks for my garage keezer, I need no collar. I use a pluto rather than picnic and it works well. I also like that it is impossible to get the disconnects crossed. I have no issue venting through the gas post either. YMMV, but I say go with the best deal.:rockin: