Kegging psi

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bren2426

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New to the forum but have been brewing for some years now and just now starting to keg. So my question is basically when serving do I keep co2 hooked up. My setup is. Right now keg is in fridge at 40 and co2 at 10 psi. It's been on for two days. Now 10 psi is to much pressure to serve at. So do I disconnect co2 and let it come from tap that way or do I leave co2 on and lower to 2 psi and serve like that. Thanks.
 

mamies

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I have my system set at roughly 10psi all the time. I just restrict my beer line (by increasing its length) to have it pour out at the right speed. I also find the carbonation stays really consistent and I get a good pour. I leave my beer gas on when serving and only turn it off when I am not using it incase I create a leak.
 
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bren2426

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I tried it this morning at 10 psi the beer blasts out of the tap I turned it to 2 but isn't it still charged at 10. Also the beer is a milky color it is a blue moon clone and when it went I to the keg it looked exactly like a blue moon color. And now that I pour it I to glass it's a milky color but it still taste the same and has a decent head. So is there to much carb in it to change the color or something different.
 

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I tried it this morning at 10 psi the beer blasts out of the tap I turned it to 2 but isn't it still charged at 10. Also the beer is a milky color it is a blue moon clone and when it went I to the keg it looked exactly like a blue moon color. And now that I pour it I to glass it's a milky color but it still taste the same and has a decent head. So is there to much carb in it to change the color or something different.
Keep it at 10 psi, or even 12 psi. You need longer lines. You should have at least 8' of 3/16" line to start with, but going with 10' is better.

If it's only been a couple of days, it won't be carbed yet. It needs to be at 10-12 psi at fridge temperatures for at least a week or two to carb up.

The reason it poured milky is that some of the yeast is at the bottom of the keg, and the keg pours from the bottom. If you don't move the keg any more, it will stop pouring yeasty.
 

Stauffbier

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I have 12' X 3/16" lines and I serve at 12lbs. I get really good results with that set-up.

Like Yooper said, the cloudiness is the yeast settling out in the keg. After a week or two it will settle out nicely. Your first pint or two will be cloudy, but then it will pour nice and clear.
 
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bren2426

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Ok guys I hooked up a 20 ft 1/4 hose and it did slow down a lot. Milkiness is now gone. And it's way more carb now. I get a great head and lacing. So I think we are in business. This was my first keg and so far everything is turning out great. Thanks for everyone's help. And the blue moon clone I made is pretty damn close. So if anyone wants the recipe let me know. Thanks.
 

balrog429

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Ill try your recipe. It'll be easy drinking on these hot days here.
 
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bren2426

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Ok great. I will get everything wrote down and how I did it and get it posted to this thread soon

image-4061097876.jpg
 
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bren2426

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I have another question. When I tap the beer from the keg I get a **** load of foam. It's at 10 psi I even tried 2 and off all together. I tried tank inside and out and all the same. Now I did use 1 lb of flaked oat instead of 8 oz for head retention. Not sure if that matters. Here is a pic of what it looks like when I tap it. Now if I let it sit for a few in goes down but then I only have half a glass. So what am I doing wrong. I would like I get this kegging down before I keg my stout. Thanks.

image-1297530653.jpg
 

Jimmyjim

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Does that happen for every beer you pour?
Or just the first one?

If it's just the first one, then it's probably from the beer line getting warm.
 

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Ok guys I hooked up a 20 ft 1/4 hose and it did slow down a lot. Milkiness is now gone. And it's way more carb now. I get a great head and lacing. So I think we are in business. This was my first keg and so far everything is turning out great. Thanks for everyone's help. And the blue moon clone I made is pretty damn close. So if anyone wants the recipe let me know. Thanks.
You need a 10-12' 3/16" line, not 1/4" line. With a 1/4" line, you need a lot more of it. 1/4" line is designed for long runs, like at a bar.
 
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bren2426

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Ok great I will try that tomorrow. Ill keep you posted. About to start my cherry fever stout tonite.
 
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bren2426

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Yah the 3/16 line didn't work. I think I'm gonna just carb with corn sugar on keg and screw the co2 lol.
 

Stauffbier

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You'll still need gas to serve even if you prime with sugar in the keg.

I have to keep my keezer set at 36 degrees to get a good pour. It's colder than I'd like to serve, but if I keep it at 40F I get foam. Not a big deal, though. In my hot climate a pint warms up quickly once it's poured.

Maybe try dropping your temp a little to see if it helps you like it does for me...
 

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Yah the 3/16 line didn't work. I think I'm gonna just carb with corn sugar on keg and screw the co2 lol.
If it's not working, you're defying the laws of physics!

Either the beer line isn't really beverage tubing, or the beer is overcarbed, or there is an obstruction in the faucet/line/keg post. There are no other possibilities.

Time, plus pressure, along with temperature = carbonation level. It's not possible for anything else.
 

outside92129

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What was the latest configuration you used? Yooper is right, go 3/16. Believe it or not there is a huuuuge difference between 1/4 and 3/16 when it comes to beer.
 
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bren2426

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Ok my setup is a mini fridge converted to a kegerator. I am using 3/16 line for beer and coming out top with an old school perlick faucet tap. I have 20lb co2 on the outside but it was on inside with no difference. The fridge temp is 40 maybe a Lil higher but not sure if I can get it lower with the temp control I'm at max. So if it is temp then ill have to change to a standard size fridge. Maybe I will try the big beer fridge and get it colder and if it works then ill sell the Lil kegerator. Also never checked the beer temp maybe it's colder in fridge than what the beer is.
 

Setesh

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What was the latest configuration you used? Yooper is right, go 3/16. Believe it or not there is a huuuuge difference between 1/4 and 3/16 when it comes to beer.
If you wan't a demonstration try blowing through 1/4" tube and then 3/16". It's amazing how hard it is to blow through 3/16" tubing.

Just for reference, I use 14' of Bev-Seal 3/16 tubing (12psi at 40 degrees) and I have to pour the last 1/4 glass from really high just to build a head.
 

Stauffbier

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How long is that 3/16" ID serving line?
I was wondering the same thing. When I bought my hardware it came with 5 foot lines which were too short. After I replaced them with 12' it worked great.
 

SpeedYellow

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Just listen to everybody and use 10 ft of 3/16" beverage tubing. This is what most folks do. If it still foams with even the 2nd beer pulled, then your pressure is probably higher than your regulator says, or possibly something inside the faucet or connections is disturbing the smooth flow of beer.
 

Veedo

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Just throwing another option out there, I use 5 foot 3/16 beer lines in my setup, but also have the perlick 545 flow control faucets. They stay wide open for most beers, and no foaming problems. Works great when you want to carb a beer a little higher, all I do is dial back the faucet a tad. Keezer stays pretty cold though, around 37-38.
 

Setesh

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Just throwing another option out there, I use 5 foot 3/16 beer lines in my setup, but also have the perlick 545 flow control faucets. They stay wide open for most beers, and no foaming problems. Works great when you want to carb a beer a little higher, all I do is dial back the faucet a tad. Keezer stays pretty cold though, around 37-38.
This is what I want to do but I can't seem to get around to making a collar for my keezer. The picnic taps work OK and there is always something else to do instead of makikng the collar, like brewing more beer.
 
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bren2426

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I have 3/16 10 ft line. I'm going toget a better reading on my temp. Maybe it's a little warm. I will tinker with it in the next couple days.
 
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bren2426

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Here is the cherry fever stout I'm working on.



image-720489642.jpg
 

SpeedYellow

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bren2426 said:
I have 3/16 10 ft line. I'm going toget a better reading on my temp. Maybe it's a little warm. I will tinker with it in the next couple days.
That's the second time you mentioned it being a little warm, as if you think that's causing the foaming. It is not. Unless of course you cranked your pressure up to 14 psi or something.
 

JuanMoore

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Possible causes of foaming:

1) The beer is coming out too fast. The warmer or more highly carbonated the beer is, the more the CO2 wants to come out of solution, and the slower and more gentle the pour needs to be. The best way to slow the pour down is using smaller diameter or longer beer line. With 10psi serving pressure, 10' of 3/16" ID line, and 40° beer, this shouldn't be an issue.

2) The beer is carbed to a level higher than the serving pressure. You implied that you carbed using the set and forget method at 10psi, but didn't mention it implicitly. How did you carb the beer?

3) Gas is entering the beer line. This is almost always a result of an old and cracked or deformed liquid side diptube o-ring. I've also heard of very rare cases where there was a pinhole in the liquid side diptube.

4) The tower, faucet, shank, and/or lines are significantly warmer than the beer in the keg. Usually this only causes foam on the first pour of a drinking session. The cold beer flowing through will chill things enough to get a good pour until it sits long enough to warm up again. In rare instances, the temperature stratification inside the keezer/kegerator is great enough that it causes several foamy pours before cooling off enough to pour well.

5) Improper pouring technique. When pouring a beer, the faucet should be opened all the way in one swift motion. Opening the faucet partially will create a restriction that will knock CO2 out of solution and cause foaming. The glass should also start out tipped, allowing the beer to slide gently down the side of the glass until the liquid level gets high enough to be able to gently pour into the center of the glass.

6) Dirty glassware. Glassware that's not cleaned and dried properly will have water spots on it that can become nucleation points for the CO2 to come out of solution. Rinsing the glass with cold water just before pouring a beer will often eliminate this issue.

7) Restriction in the line. This can be hop particles stuck in the keg poppet or between the diptube and the bottom of the keg, ice crystals forming in the line where it's sitting too close to the cooling coils, gunk built up in the faucet, a tailpiece gasket improperly installed, or a simple kink in the line somewhere.
 
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bren2426

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Ok. I carbed the beer by putting it in the kegerator on co2 at 10 psi. I let it sit for 5 days and tested it. It was carbed to my liking. Started with 1/4 line but now at 3/16 10 ft. I think mini fridge was to warm so I put in big beer fridge today. With 3/16 line and picnic tap. Fridge is at 33 deg. So later this evening I will try it out. It might have been temp. Ill keep u posted. Thanks.
 

SpeedYellow

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It was not temperature. Why do you keep saying that?? See JuanMoore's post above - the only way temp can be a problem is a temp DIFFERENTIAL in the lines (i.e. lines are warmer than the beer). You can set your fridge to 50F and it'll perform just fine; undercarbonated yes, but that won't cause foam.
 

JuanMoore

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It was not temperature. Why do you keep saying that?? See JuanMoore's post above - the only way temp can be a problem is a temp DIFFERENTIAL in the lines (i.e. lines are warmer than the beer). You can set your fridge to 50F and it'll perform just fine; undercarbonated yes, but that won't cause foam.
You're partially correct. The OP's temp being a couple degrees higher than the 40° he thinks it's at shouldn't cause foaming. Higher temps can cause foaming though, and serving at 50° can indeed cause problems.

As I mentioned above, the warmer the beer is, the more the CO2 wants to come out of solution, and the slower and gentler the pour needs to be in order to prevent foaming. The 4-5' lines that most kegerators come with are based on line balancing calculators used for commercial systems, which assume beer temps of 36° or less. If you keep your beer temp at or under 36°, those short lines will typically work fine for carb levels all the way up to ~2.7 vol. If you bump the temp up just a few degrees, to the 38-40° range (like many of us homebrewers prefer), then you need to double the line length to slow things enough to get a decent pour, even with lower carb levels like 2.4-2.5 vol. This is why you see so many suggestions on this site to use 10' lines.
 

SpeedYellow

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You're partially correct. The OP's temp being a couple degrees higher than the 40° he thinks it's at shouldn't cause foaming. Higher temps can cause foaming though, and serving at 50° can indeed cause problems.

As I mentioned above, the warmer the beer is, the more the CO2 wants to come out of solution, and the slower and gentler the pour needs to be in order to prevent foaming. The 4-5' lines that most kegerators come with are based on line balancing calculators used for commercial systems, which assume beer temps of 36° or less. If you keep your beer temp at or under 36°, those short lines will typically work fine for carb levels all the way up to ~2.7 vol. If you bump the temp up just a few degrees, to the 38-40° range (like many of us homebrewers prefer), then you need to double the line length to slow things enough to get a decent pour, even with lower carb levels like 2.4-2.5 vol. This is why you see so many suggestions on this site to use 10' lines.
No, if the temp is high, that doesn't in itself cause foaming like the OP seems to think. Now if you jack up the pressure too (cet. par.), then indeed you'll get foaming, but that's not because of the higher temperature; it's because your line lengths aren't balanced with the higher pressure. The OP said he's keeping 10 psi, so beer at 40+F shouldn't in itself cause foaming unless maybe the beer was carb'd at a lower temp.
 

JuanMoore

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No, if the temp is high, that doesn't in itself cause foaming like the OP seems to think. Now if you jack up the pressure too (cet. par.), then indeed you'll get foaming, but that's not because of the higher temperature; it's because your line lengths aren't balanced with the higher pressure. The OP said he's keeping 10 psi, so beer at 40+F shouldn't in itself cause foaming unless maybe the beer was carb'd at a lower temp.
You have to balance more than just the pressure, you also need to consider the beer temp and carbonation level. For a beer carbed to 2.7 vol (like most BMC beer), and stored at 36° or lower (like commercial systems are set up), a flow rate of ~128 oz/min works just fine. This is the figure that most line balancing calculators use, because they were all developed for balancing commercial systems. As an example, the pressure would be 12 psi for a beer at 36° and 2.7 vol, and the line length for a flow rate of 128 oz/min would be 3-4'. As long as the system is set up properly and well maintained, this should provide good pours. Just to be on the safe side, most kegerator manufacturers include 5' of line.

Now consider a similar set-up, also kept on 12psi, but with a beer temp of 40° this time. The carbonation will be 2.43 vol instead of 2.7, and using that same 3-4' line length will result in the same 128 oz/min flow rate. This time however it will foam like crazy, as evident by reading through the plethora of "Help, my beer is all foam" threads in this forum. To get a good pour at warmer temps, the flow rate needs to be slower to keep the carbonation in solution, which requires longer lines. Just because an increased temp means reduced carbonation, that doesn't necessarily mean that the same flow rate will still be acceptable at the increased temp.

If the OP's beer is close to 40°, then the carbonation should be around 2.3 vol, and the 10' lines should reduce the flow rate enough to get a good pour. If on the other hand the temp is actually 50°, that 10 psi will correspond to 1.9 vol of carbonation, and 10' lines might very well be too short to slow the flow down enough to get a decent pour.
 
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bren2426

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Ill be kegging another beer in about a week. So I'll let you know on the outcome. Thanks for all the assistance.
 
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bren2426

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Ok I think I figured it out. I had to much carb. My gauge must not read correct. I took off co2 and released some pressure and let it sit for a cpl weeks and the pour is awesome. Here is a pc of the first pour. Thanks for all the help.

image-147352117.jpg
 
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bren2426

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Ok I came to some other conclusions too I cleaned and sanitized keg today and found out that most of my orings were bad. So I could have been leaking co2 this while time which would probably cause it to over carb. I am kegging my cherry fever stout today on the newly conditioned kegs. So I will let everyone know in about a week. I am starting my all grain red ale today.
 

Stauffbier

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O rings that leak out gas would likely cause your beer to be under carbed not over carbed. Not to mention you probably would have run out of co2 really fast if you had a leak. It is good practice to replace them if they look bad, though.
 
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