Keezer probe method setup

[sparky2284]

what is best method to locate the temperature probe (etc-1000)?

how would you do it?

 

[masonsjax]

I drilled a hole in the lid of a 20 oz water bottle which I filled with water and put the probe through the lid. That bottle sits on the hump in the keezer.

For the fermentation fridge, I tape the probe to the side of my carboy under some foam insulation.

 

[Zzyzx3]

I drilled a hole in the lid of a 20 oz water bottle which I filled with water and put the probe through the lid. That bottle sits on the hump in the keezer.

+1 to putting the probe inside a water bottle.

 

[sparky2284]

What are your cycle times?

 

[gocougs1]

...same here, took an empty gatorade bottle drilled hole in cap for probe and filled with a star-san-ish mixture. Sits on the hump.

I drilled a hole in the lid of a 20 oz water bottle which I filled with water and put the probe through the lid. That bottle sits on the hump in the keezer.

For the fermentation fridge, I tape the probe to the side of my carboy under some foam insulation.

 

[sparky2284]

Cycle times?

 

[MerlinWerks]

I believe for my 10 cu ft with six kegs, mine runs for about 30 min every five hours or so with setpoint of 41F. I believe the beer is actually a couple of degrees colder than the water in my gallon jug though.

 

[Zepth]

I didn't want to put my probe submerged. I used a glass jar and taped the probe to the side of it. Then put an old folded (laundered) sock over the probe to insulate it directly from air, and taped the whole contraption in place. The jar sits on a piece of foam to insulate from conduction of the keezer itself - only the air influences the jar temperature.

Cycles for about 10-15 minutes every 2 - 2.5 hours. Set at 8C, 0.5 F2.

 

[HSD]

I didn't want to put my probe submerged. I used a glass jar and taped the probe to the side of it. Then put an old folded (laundered) sock over the probe to insulate it directly from air, and taped the whole contraption in place. The jar sits on a piece of foam to insulate from conduction of the keezer itself - only the air influences the jar temperature.

Cycles for about 10-15 minutes every 2 - 2.5 hours. Set at 8C, 0.5 F2.

I'm having a hard time envisioning what this looks like exactly, but love the sounds of it. Any chance you have a picture of your setup?

 

[Zepth]

I'm having a hard time envisioning what this looks like exactly, but love the sounds of it. Any chance you have a picture of your setup?

A picture would look like a balled up rag covered in tape. Thanks to my mad MS paint skills I have a much more useful diagram of what's going on.

Important thing to notice is that only the probe is insulated with the fabric. If the whole jar was wrapped with it it could lead to wild temperature swings due to the jar itself being non-responsive to temperature change. Incidentally this would be exactly the opposite problem from not insulating the probe at all. Insulate probe only and life will be good.

 

[HSD]

A picture would look like a balled up rag covered in tape. Thanks to my mad MS paint skills I have a much more useful diagram of what's going on.

Important thing to notice is that only the probe is insulated with the fabric. If the whole jar was wrapped with it it could lead to wild temperature swings due to the jar itself being non-responsive to temperature change. Incidentally this would be exactly the opposite problem from not insulating the probe at all. Insulate probe only and life will be good.

Epic. Paint. Skills.

Thanks, Zepth! I'm going to follow your lead on this one.

 

[hifidelity]

I use basically the same setup, but with 3 neoprene can koozies taped to a keg as an insulator. The probe goes between the koozies and the keg.

 

[Zepth]

I use basically the same setup, but with 3 neoprene can koozies taped to a keg as an insulator. The probe goes between the koozies and the keg.

I used a similar system. Then decided that having to move the probe and insulation from keg to keg was just inconvenient. When the keg kicks you have 2 options: put it onto a keg that's half emptied already, or put it onto the direct replacement that will take a good long while to acclimatize and risk overchilling everything else.

Decided on a dedicated probe jar that just lives in the fridge and never moves. No switching locations, no hard life choices.

 

[sparky2284]

I have mine taped to an 18 ounce jar of water with insulated bubble wrap, but it cycles 30 mins on and 1 hour off. I have a fan and insulated collar. Is that too often? Any ideas what I could do to help it?

 

[Zepth]

Only real way to tell what is too often is to look for a rated duty cycle in the manual or compare it to how the keezer cycled when it used to be a freezer. It does seem more frequently than most others.

2 main ways to change the cycle times is to increase the hysteresis value (F2) to a higher number. This means it will wait for the temperature to rise more before it turns on. It also means that the residual cooling from when the compressor turns off but jar gets slightly cooler will be greater. Both combine to significantly reduce cycle times.

The other is increasing thermal mass inside the keezer. This will initially cause more or longer cycles until the new mass is chilled. But once it is it will help to keep the rest cool as well. What is thermal mass? The probe jar is the very definition of it. Could be a couple chunks of stainless steel you had laying around, a few rocks, etc. Or you could stick a couple 2L soda bottles in between the kegs if they leave a significant gap. Re-install the basket that came with the freezer to hold bottles. This method really gave me a hands on experience when I went from having only 2 kegs that I owned in it to having 4 in at once.

Edit: Come to think of it this might be a good time to ask do you have a heater in the keezer? I do not have one because the ambient room temperature is higher than the target value of my keezer so I don't need one. Also that residual cooling does drop it enough (By exactly 0.05 degree C) to turn the heat circuit on. This would start heating up to my target of F1 until it reaches the target. I don't mind if my beer swings 1/2 degree up or down from the target, I challenge anyone to tell the difference in a non-side-by-side comparison. If you have the heater option installed it could be that the cycles are fighting each other somewhat as the STC is programmed to "keep target value," with less concern for cycle times.

Side note it would be great if the compressor delay setting on the STC had significantly more adjustment range. Like 180 minutes if you wanted. Maybe the flashed ones do. Likely irrelevant here, just me thinking too much again.

 

[sparky2284]

I tried submerging the probe in the 18 ounce jar and it was the 25 mins on. 1 and 15 mins off

 

[ChrisVZ]

I am building mine right now, and this is what I came up with. I made it from a yeast vial, a peanut butter jar, and a coat hanger. Water goes in the jar and the yeast vial with the probe in it is suspended in the water.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1425262913.115662.jpg

 

[sparky2284]

I am building mine right now, and this is what I came up with. I made it from a yeast vial, a peanut butter jar, and a coat hanger. Water goes in the jar and the yeast vial with the probe in it is suspended in the water.
View attachment 260329

How is that working for you?
So far my cycle is 1hr 45min off and 30mins on

 

[ktichenor]

I have mine in a White Labs vial filled with vodka. (wont freeze)
I drilled a hole in the top and sealed the top with hot glue.

 

[ChrisVZ]

How is that working for you?
So far my cycle is 1hr 45min off and 30mins on

I haven't finished my build yet, but I think it should work well. My main concern when I made this was keeping the probe out of the water to prevent corrosion.

 

[SanPancho]

Why don't you start measuring the actual temp of your fermenting wort instead of just taking the carboy's temp? Yeast is making heat in the center and a probe taped to the side isn't gonna cut it.
It's Easy Peasy. Amazon.com 1/4"ID stainless steel tube, crimp one end tight in a vice to seal it, and your temp probe slides right down the tube like a thermowell. I use the orange carboy caps with the two rubber posts- fat (airlock?) tube holding my thermowell ( I slid a 2" section of vinyl tube on thermowell to get a tight seal) and cut the other (blowoff?) tube short and shove my airlock into it.
Now my controller is set to my fermenting beer temp, not ambient air or carboy wall or some little jar of water. +/-1F temp controlled fermenting is now as easy as set it and forget it. Probe stays nice and dry.

Thats in my fermenting cooler, in my serving/lagering cooler I either use the thermowell in at least a gallon of water, or I lodge the probe in between two kegs to take an average reading of both of them.

SS Tube was like 12 bucks on Amazon for 3 feet, makes two thermowells easy. Just make sure you measure your temp probe diameter really well, my Johnson unit probe slides right down the tube but the ranco probe is too big. I could just order the next size fatter tube, but I rarely have more than one beer fermenting at a time.

 

[ChrisVZ]

How is that working for you?
So far my cycle is 1hr 45min off and 30mins on

I haven't had a chance to put it into service yet. I am still building my keezer/bar. I am feeling confident it will work well enough for my needs while keeping the probe out of the water and less prone to corrosion.

 

[sparky2284]

Anyone else have a good method for a better cycle time?

 

[RhodySeth]

I went similar to Zepth's route. The probe is against a 22 oz glass bottle filled with water - I've got bubble wrap surrounding the probe held in place with rubber bands.

Keezer is off for about two hours, on for about 10 minutes.

 

[ds0oc1]

I went similar to Zepth's route. The probe is against a 22 oz glass bottle filled with water - I've got bubble wrap surrounding the probe held in place with rubber bands.

Keezer is off for about two hours, on for about 10 minutes.

Going to try the same thing - I have some bubble wrap insulation leftover from when I insulated one of my kettles. Hopefully this will reduce the frequency of my kegerator turning on.

 

[SanPancho]

here's a link to my setup, i included some photos for clarity. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f258/temperature-probe-placement-519186/

this setup will tell you the temp of your fermenting beer. dont waste time guessing about ambient air temp vs wort temp, just measure the wort.

as for the cycling of your keezer, your easiest bet is to fill the extra space in keezer with liquids. spare fermenters or cornys filled with water, extra beer, soda, juices, etc. basically anything besides air will build up a thermal mass that helps reduce temp swings from the cooling system- it basically slows down how fast your machine drops the temp, which gives your temp controller more time and better chance to catch the point when your keezer hits it set temp without dropping too far below it. and the thermal mass keeps its heat/cold better than air.

 

[sparky2284]

Why don't you start measuring the actual temp of your fermenting wort instead of just taking the carboy's temp? Yeast is making heat in the center and a probe taped to the side isn't gonna cut it.
It's Easy Peasy. Amazon.com 1/4"ID stainless steel tube, crimp one end tight in a vice to seal it, and your temp probe slides right down the tube like a thermowell. I use the orange carboy caps with the two rubber posts- fat (airlock?) tube holding my thermowell ( I slid a 2" section of vinyl tube on thermowell to get a tight seal) and cut the other (blowoff?) tube short and shove my airlock into it.
Now my controller is set to my fermenting beer temp, not ambient air or carboy wall or some little jar of water. +/-1F temp controlled fermenting is now as easy as set it and forget it. Probe stays nice and dry.

Thats in my fermenting cooler, in my serving/lagering cooler I either use the thermowell in at least a gallon of water, or I lodge the probe in between two kegs to take an average reading of both of them.

SS Tube was like 12 bucks on Amazon for 3 feet, makes two thermowells easy. Just make sure you measure your temp probe diameter really well, my Johnson unit probe slides right down the tube but the ranco probe is too big. I could just order the next size fatter tube, but I rarely have more than one beer fermenting at a time.

I'm not using it for fermentation chamber, it's for a keezer. I'm using for serving kegs